More dataisdepressing than dataisbeautiful
Another Lemmy post with no source in the main post.
Weird that men used to be more liberal at any point.
So probably -
When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
Men want the days back when they were more in charge and didn’t have to worry about consequences so much.
The opposite to conservative is progressive, not liberal
Yes. Liberal is the opposite of “moralist” and sometimes “oppressive”.
The US use of the word “liberal” is a bit shifted in the direction of “libertine” (same as libertarian, but strongly focused on personal freedoms of substance abuse and sexual promiscuity at the expense of economical\political freedoms to own catgirl slaves and shoot up crowds).
Especially in Europe where liberal is more typically used for economically liberal.
Which tend to be conservative socially.
The opposite is Socialism, not progressivism.
Okay boomer
Not a boomer, I’m a Communist.
Wrong
In what way? Conservativism is a branch of Liberalism, just like Progressivism. They are all under the Capitalist umbrella of Liberalism. The opposite, therefore, is Socialism.
Not sure I fully agree with your take, but that’s beside the point. They said “wrong”, now that settles it. Sorry, maybe next argument 🤷♂️
Congratulations, you have successfully redefined imprtant words in a way that makes your understanding of them fundamentally incomoatible with other people’s, rendering clear communication impossible.
I don’t know why this was your goal, but I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was intentional, because the only alternative is that you are less intelligent than a particularly dense house plant.
Never redefined any of it. Liberalism is the ideology supporting Capitalism, Progressivism is the left side of liberalism and conservativism is the right side. Progressives still support Capitalism, same with conservatives.
I mean it isn’t. Progressivism only seems to exist as a word in America, because the USA has the red scares, and conflates communism and socialism, and so are scared of the phrase and had to reinvent their own.
In Europe, you have Conservatives (right wing market, socially conservative), Liberals (free market, but with positivity towards social reforms). Socialism or Democratic Socialism (positive social reforms, state involvement, but with democracy). Communism (economic distribution but more autocratic), and Social Democratic (somewhere between Liberal and Democratic Socialist). Socialism is where you’re willing to consider the state getting involved in wealth redistribution.
It’s better you understand political philosophy and how it is used and applies around the world to truly understand it. You cannot understand the spectrum, if you cannot zoom out from the Overton window.
That’s not what Socialism and Communism are, though. Democratic Socialism itself is a nebulous and meaningless term.
Listen, I too can write several paragraphs painting the consequences of redefining the relevant key words in hand. I will be careful to avoid providing substance of the topic in hand while attempting to make you feel guilty and of poor character.
Do not misunderstand anything I say because I will try to make sure you think that your work actually harms people because your education and intelligence are insufficient and even subversive. If you do not, you will see that everyone else will be buying a nice lollipop for the event and add to the consequential sugar.
This explains why they are fat and sitting at a computer in their parent’s basement. You won’t be able stop it because no matter what you do, there are so many that the truth is inevitable for everyone involved; whether they bother to acknowledge such or not.
What on Earth are you talking about?
How does it start with women being more conservative than men in Germany and the US?
Being less educated and living the traditional life of sitting at home and doing house work.
Easy.
It’s like a trick. Priest are basically just pimps. You kids…well, yeah…you either get it or you just won’t believe anyone but the pimp’s word.
There is a kind of shorter-term marriage in Shia Islam which sometimes may approach prostitution in practice.
But generally no. A traditional European marriage is not a worker servicing a client.
Not talking about the adults here.
My guess is from a rise in hatred of homosexual men during the aids epidemic in the 80s maybe?
That’s why there are so many incels conservatives and more lesbians, the numbers talks from themselves.
Sounds like the women did better advance planning if they’re still getting laid.
They just got lucky timing the market. Nothing more.
The important thing here is to know how did they measure young people’s political ideologies. I wouldn’t expect it was self-perceived as currently, people have a hard time admitting they are conservative compared to admitting they sympathize with a conservative party.
If it was determined by a questionnaire, it would be interesting to see what questions were included. Maybe the questions weren’t well planned and that’s it. Maybe they equalled feminist takes to
progressiveliberal ones, which is something that can be discussed. In this case, I would be picky about the origin of the graphics.If the importance of women’s issues like reproductive freedom were overrepresented relative to other issues, this would definitely account for at least part of this difference. But “importance” itself is already a very subjective concept. It’s hard to put numbers on these things and create a scoring system that’s actually useful.
The gap sounds plausible, but I highly doubt the overall positions relative to 0.
E.g., the Federal Republic of Germany has had conservative chancellors for 51 years out of the 75 since it was founded. We did not have a constant left majority (I assume that is what they mean by liberal, since the actual sense of the term doesn’t make sense as an opposite to “conservative”).
These graphs only cover the demographic of 18-29 year olds, which historically do lean heavily towards progressive.
The difference by sex is the really interesting feature.
This is only a relative argument if you can prove the government accurately and granularly represents the population. That would be nice if it were true but speaking as an American, I find it hard to believe.
The world lol? More like America and its vassals.
Do you have any links for surveys of other countries?
To be fair in dictatorships like China it doesn’t really count since you’re not allowed to have an opinion anyway
go back to reddit liberal
Not one of the billion people who live in China have an opinion, interesting.
Is that the reasoning for bombing civilians to smithereen across the globe if they are under something you see as a dictatorship - they doesn’t count?
As long as none of the civilians is a white cishet capitalist man, who cares?
It’s weird that the axes of where “centre” is remain stable over time. Can you imagine comparing “left vs right” between the 1890s and the 1920s? Like a bunch of stuff happened in between, history happened, and that tends to redefine left, right and centre.
Great observation! This is called the Overton Window
Difficult to assess this info without knowing how the data was created.
Also hard to believe the American average is +20 leaning lib. The country is represented by a fascist party and a centrist party, and anything more left than the centrist party is considered “far left”.
The Y axis here is not an absolute international political compass. It measures which political party each person favors, and judging by that country’s local standards categorizes that party as either left or right.
A rising number in the US chart means a larger number of people prefer democrats over republicans. It doesn’t mean that people’s stances are necessarily moving further left. Similarly, it’s no coincidence that the inflection point where UK numbers rise by a lot correspond to Brexit: the party seen as responsible for the unpopular change lost a lot of support, but that doesn’t mean the population has so sharply moved drastically more progressive in such a short time.
The graph is about young people, not the entire population. Young people in America are historically more progressive than older people.
Also why does liberal and conservative have to be on an absolute scale? The words liberal and conservative seem to me at least be about pushing politics in one direction or another. Because policy is always subject to change, shouldn’t the words liberal and conservative be relative to the political system they exist within?
Yes, “liberal” and “conservative” are relative, not absolute terms. There’s a concept known as the Overton Window which describes exactly this shift of what is considered the “center” and what is considered a radical left/right position in any given society at any given time.
The idea that people should vote for their representatives, for example, was once considered an extremist take that could ruin civilization itself if implemented. The Overton Window shifted and nowadays even most Fascists will at least pretend in public to agree with it.
And, I did miss that important detail.
It doesn’t have to be an absolute scale of course, but then why show 4 countries where all seem to deviate from the center? Are these country graphs even comparable?
Yeah I agree, it’s not a very good graph. I just get frustrated when people ridicule the US political system for everything. We have a lot to fix (like what’s causing women to become more liberal), but I think we need to focus on what’s actionable and reasonable to fix. We can’t become +20 more liberal overnight.
Sauce, for those interested - https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998
In the US, Gallup data shows that after decades where the sexes were each spread roughly equally across liberal and conservative world views, women aged 18 to 30 are now 30 percentage points more liberal than their male contemporaries. That gap took just six years to open up.
So it might be worth taking it with a pinch of salt because I’m betting it’s using the very dumbed down “liberal vs conservative” 'murican political view. Maybe skew all results down 3-6 points.
Anyone wanna take bets that the datatrend will change once we have fully functional Gynoids?
We won’t. The desire is to be connected to a real living woman. Toys can’t get sophisticated enough to make you believe what you prematurely know to not be true.
Yeah that’s what meant by fully “functional”. We already see it with people purchasing sex dolls and even the AI powered ones that have conversations. If a AI dolls is indistinguishable or at least good enough from a human female I bet we will see a change as the populous is satisfied.
And that’s exactly why hagmaxing is a trend now. Women in their reproductive prime (under 30) are basically insufferable socialists/communists which is a turnoff for men of any age… except chads who swat off hordes of women competing for their attention and as the result never have to commit to any serious or long-term relationship.
I sometimes think they turn conservative because women won’t date them.
Well, that and also because the left basically hates them. Hearing narratives like “men are privileged, racist, homophobic, and all the other isms, phobes and ists” combined with DEI initiatives that invalidate and sabotage their hard work and achievements makes them want to disconnect from these groups and modern societal “norms.”
Why would you date someone who resents and hates you?
I’m pretty sure women don’t want to date people who have any sort of disposition that leans towards hating them or believing that women are lesser than men.
Unfortunately, a lot of men learned that way of thinking early in life(from family and/or media) and it ruins any attempt at a relationship, then they blame women and run to the very people who set them up to fail for validation, or find new ones like that sex trafficker with the pizza boxes, or that canadian psychologist who sugar coats sexism online. Repeat ad nauseum.
That was the mainstream 70-80 years ago. Late 90’s and early 2000’s largely (not completely; nothing is perfect) corrected that, although there was still work to be done. For a brief couple of decades, society enjoyed unadulterated equality underpinned by meritocracy.
Nowadays men are checking out because modern society overcorrected to the point of them feeling rejected and hated… and unfortunately shithead lowlives like Tate capitalize on that. There are also academics like Peterson whose messaging is too nuanced for the average liberal to comprehend without bias (that’s legitimately difficult to do especially when one’s doctrine actively teaches and encourages ignorance and rejection of opposing views) - kind of like the reverse Tate fanboy, i.e. flaming liberal commie/socialist that would rather dump oil on priceless paintings in museums and run around naked while screaming in people faces while blocking major arterial streets in a busy city in the name of climate change or veganism or some other shit. So on one hand you have Tate fanboys (borderline classical Nazis) and on the other extreme of the spectrum you have overgrown narcissists (basically grown-ass adult toddlers that never developed a proper superego, to use Freudian parlance). I wouldn’t expect an adult toddler with deep-rooted indoctrinated biases to be able to consume or critically analyze any kind of nuanced opinion that did not 100% align with their own… heck, one SJW blue haired leftie with a law degree told me that Peterson’s original argument was that he did not accept trans people, and were genuinely surprised to learn that his sticking point was about compelled speech (weaponized anti-misgendering legislation), rather than being or nor being transgender.
So from the “incel” perspective (and I am usijg that term rather cynically here, as today’s “incel” is basically the 90’s average 20-30 year old man with classical liberal leanings) on one hand, you have people screaming at you how you’re the problem, you’re a nazi, an incel, blah blah blah, and on the other hand you have people who remind you of the “good old days” when you could settle down, buy a home with a picket fence, a car, a dog/cat, a couple of kids and live your damn life in peace… with a bit of 40-60’s sexism/nazi-ism (depending on who you listen to) sprinkled in. Now whom are you going to listen to as a cis white straight male (the majority of males, BTW)? Hmmm… I wonder…
I have an old high school friend who is very much into the whole Andrew Tate thing. His parents were separated, I don’t know the details as to why, but I do know that his father was a lot more stable than his mother, and I do sometimes wonder if he had lived with his father, if he would have turned out better.
He also thinks the earth is flat because… otherwise a ball would roll off a table. QED.
So not exactly firing an old cylinders to begin with.
“Divorced dad energy” is one of those meme things that everyone likes to make fun of when a dude does anything, but no one likes to address that same poison when divorced moms act like fools.
My mother would drag me to various groups that would absolutely shit on “men” constantly, and I got to hear that constantly. It was weird growing up in that environment, but luckily for me it was before the redpill trash all over the internet. Managed to find some good friends in high school
That’s a interesting point. My mother was substantially more mentally stable when I was a child then when my siblings were born.
In the age of social media I imagine people are actually a lot more antisocial than we used to be…. And if young men and young women are all online more now and actually go out to interact in person less than we used to, this would make it a lot more difficult for young men to interact with the young women long enough to ask them out….
Online is heavily skewed in women’s favor unfortunately. I had a female coworker that had 100+ matches on bumble and kept complaining how hard it was too keep track of. She wasn’t even very pretty and she had an empty pot for head. Meanwhile male coworkers really struggle. No surprise This will make some males bitter and lash out. Even if they do find a partner Worst part is if the social skills are bad it is a bad relationship. I hope we are not seeing a universe 25 style collapse.
I wasn’t specifically talking about online dating, but women are generally more desired by men than vice versa, whether online or in person.
I can’t imagine online dating to be useful than for more than a handful of people in my opinion.
I was more saying since we are all online more, we are all interacting in person a lot less, which allows for more organic interactions…
Yeah I agree. Wanting to Go back the good old days is what is causing this trend. Though Realistically all the social skills in the world won’t bag you the girl if you are average right now. I knew a few coworkers that wouldn’t even talk to a guy unless he was a 666 man. 6 figures, 6 feet, 6 pack. No surprise they are single. I wonder if their POV changed overtime, they were in early 20s at the time. I know my old roommate lowered her standards super hard over 30 to bag a husband.
I can’t remember which app it was, but I tried online dating over a decade ago. I noticed I wasn’t getting very many responses to any messages I sent out, and it was basically after saying yes to everyone and I had spent some time on the app, so I got to the point where I just messaged everyone a generic opener….
I talked to my female roommate at the time and I got a couple generic photos of her, she was a young mid 20’s woman who was very pretty but idk average for a young beautiful woman.
I created a new profile for myself, and also a second profile for her, I let her choose the most attractive photos of me and I chose some dorky not very attractive but still cute I guess photos of her….
She had ten messages before we were even able to upload the first photo after just creating the account.
This doesn’t mean that she got messages from guys who were someone she would consider dating. It just means she got a lot of messages. I think guys don’t realize how many messages the women get. They have to wade through hundreds of “hi how are you doing” messages before they can even start a conversation. Whereas the guys have to send out messages that are unique and capture the attention of ladies to get a conversation started. Neither is ideal, it’s just how it is
That’s very true and likely why she felt so overwhelmed. No one is really winning. She would have had a really good match in there but drowned in a sea of options.
In this case we only left the app open for a couple hours that afternoon before we deleted it, but it’s just anecdotal evidence that show if we are specifically talking about online dating the problems are just as bad for either sex if we are talking about cis heteronormative relationships
Is this… tilted slightly?
Am I leaning?
left-leaning, maybe
Mine curves to the left
Here you see the chinese meddling in other countries’ politics. The canadians are so brainwashed by the chinese that in canadian elections they vote for the Communist Party of China!
Canada is so fucked. I understand the fatigue with Justin Trudeau and the Liberals but if PP wins it truly is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
We deserve whatever comes from the next election. A person is smart. People are dumb.
There is no “fatigue” with Justin Trudeau.
People are pissed off and struggling because of the decisions that their municipal or provincial government make, and then misattribute that pain to the federal government.
Yet, they’ll vote conservative, not realizing this.
Housing affordability, healthcare, education, traffic congestion, crime, homelessness, childcare, or even snow removal ARE NOT the responsibility of the federal government.
Rather than buying “fuck Trudeau” stickers and flags to put on their oversized pickup trucks, maybe voters should learn how our government is structured.
There is no “fatigue” with Justin Trudeau.
I strongly disagree and anecdotally the sentiment plays out.
People are pissed off and struggling because of the decisions that their municipal or provincial government make, and then misattribute that pain to the federal government.
You’re also ignoring the litany of bullshit the Liberals have fumbled during their time in office as well as the multiple very public scandals around what amounts to a very publicly perceived “not giving a shit about Canadians”.
Housing affordability, healthcare, education, traffic congestion, crime, homelessness, childcare, or even snow removal ARE NOT the responsibility of the federal government.
They are everyone’s responsibility don’t try to pass the buck. The Fed’s have an obligation just as much as provincial and municipal.
As someone who leans left and has voted Liberal on multiple occasions making it out like they’re the victim is complete and utter bullshit.
I highly doubt most of the “fuck Trudeau” sticker people have no clue what he has or hasn’t done. They just hate him because he’s on the other team.
On a side note I don’t think I’ve ever seen the sticker NOT on a giant truck.
Halp!!!
Those letters mean absolutely nothing to me
Canadian politics: red, Liberal party (center); blue, Conservative party (right); orange, New Democrat party (left); green, Green party (was kinda conservative, then had a meltdown around identity politics); BQ are kind of French separatists.
The colors are also meaningless as well since there was no global definition of each color means respective to political leanings. So it’s basically a meaningless picture. At least the OP graphic (while it has some pretty big problems) tells you which is left and which is right.
They’re Canadian political parties.
Yeah I got that from context but I wouldn’t just dump a UK political chart on everyone and expect them to be able to understand it not least because the colors all opposite to what you would expect from a US centric point of view
Red is liberal blue is conservative
the graph is using the party’s respective official colours
So
Like the vast majority of the population of the planet I’m not Canadian, and don’t magically know what any of the colors means.
I’m only asking for a simple explanation, that is not particularly complicated or hard to comprehend.
Would you like to supply one since apparently you know about Canadian politics? A subject matter that I am confident no one else cares about
