- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
Donald Trump has said that Palestinians have “no alternative” but to leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas, in effect endorsing ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
Speaking as he prepared to host Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday, Trump repeated the suggestion that Gaza’s population should be relocated to Jordan and Egypt – something both countries have firmly rejected.
Trump claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”, telling reporters: “I would think that they would be thrilled.”
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In 1940, the Nazis’ plan was to relocate all Jews to Madagascar.
Just 2 years later, they started exterminating them systematically.The amount of hatred against phantom leftists that on the one hand lost the Dems the vote and on the other were too weak to have their demands considered is crazy.
No, these people didn’t lose you the vote. They don’t even exist in this ambivalent form. It was everyday citizens that heard Democrats push the same racist border talking points Trump spewed last election and went “Hm, if even the Dems say this is a problem, I’ll vote the party that talked about how evil Migrants were for decades, the GOP”. It’s people tired of increasingly struggling to make ends meet and the Dems saying everything will stay the same, while Trump promised them change. We know that he just means destroying the last remnants of social security nets for poor people and everything that stands in the way for oligarchs making kaijulllian dollars. But people are stupid and desperate. Why can’t the Democratic party be held to a higher standard than whatever this is?
Americans making this about Trump vs Kamala is getting really really annoying. I mean, we get it, you are pissed off at each other. We’ve read the same arguments dozens of times already, and at this point it is getting extremely tired. It sucks the oxygen out of every conversation. Is this what the discourse is going to be around Palestine and Israel the next four years?
Accelerationism has made things worse for everyone. Now we have a US president who has declared his intention to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip of Palestinians. If you want things to get better then you have to act in a way that is useful to that end. That means voting for parties that are to the left of fascists and that have a chance of winning. In the US, that’s the Democrats.
I don’t think that legitimate elections are happening in 4 years. They’re gutting everything and installing their flunkies just as they said they would in p2025.
The last election is where democracy died.
I am afraid that the time to vote your way out of this is at an end. There is no way Republicans will willingly give up all three branches of government.
I am afraid that the time to vote your way out of this is at an end. There is no way Republicans will willingly give up all three branches of government.
Musk has control of the US Treasury Department payment system. Obviously not. Fascists don’t hold elections.
I’m trying to get people to act in their own self-interest. It may be too late for us, but someone might learn something someday. People who survive the collapse of the US and climate change might make better choices.
If we don’t tell people what went wrong here they will do it again.
Oh by all means talk about what went wrong. Recording history is vital. I’m just saying voting your way out of this won’t happen.
Also, not every country has been taken over by fascists yet.
You can’t make the survival of democracy hinge on everybody having to vote for you because else it would be getting even worse. You actually have to present an option that promises that things get better. Significantly even, since most people in the US are absolutely struggling.
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Kamala was running for president. Biden dropped out. Kamala wanted to end the war.
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The vice president doesn’t have the power to overrule the president. Biden is complicit in genocide. Kamala and many in his adminstration are not.
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The vice president isn’t in charge of sending weapons to anyone. Harris was never given any such order to follow. Here is an overview of the role of the vice president:
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/what-is-the-constitutional-role-of-the-vice-president
Trump has no authority over the Palestinian people and/or territories.
Single-issue voters, when EVERYTHING was at stake, deserve all the hate they get, but are too stupid to understand. The worst kind of trumpers, ones that don’t think they are.
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Trump says Palestinians have ‘no alternative’ but to leave Gaza
Trump is the president of the United States and he has declared his intentions to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip. Americans who refused to vote for Kamala Harris are part of how we got here. American accelerationism harmed Palestinians.
so, are we only allowed to say ‘genocide’ when criticizing democrats? but when republicans do it “it’s not a genocide, it’s ethnic cleansing”.
Yes, blame the voters. That will surely make them change and help win the next election for Democrats. /s
The voters of the usa are the assholes who help a facist to win, voting for this asshole or not voting for any candidate and let a facist win, if you only have two options in an election, a shit politician vs a facist you always vote for the shit politician but i read a lot of shit excuses of US assholes that they be almost forced to vote for a facist, now you have a shit facist as president so yes, is your fault
now you have a shit facist as president so yes, is your fault
I am not American. But putting that aside, US has a fascist president because the so called better choice decided it is better for a fascist to be elected president than to do what voters asked for, like not supporting fucking Genocide.
How much better are the Democrats really, if they themselves did not care about handing the presidency to Trump?
It’s years of voters willing to vote for the “lesser evil” that allowed both parties to field shittier and shittier candidates. Because it’s not as bad as the other guy and people will vote for lesser evil. So now you have two options that should have both been completely unacceptable in any civilized society and you still pretend to be morally superior, because your completely evil candidate is slightly less evil then the other one.
Im not from the usa, but i know if i need to choose between a facist an a piece of shit i prefer the piece of shit, you punch facist, fight agains them, do whatever to dont give then any kind of power but you came to give me excuses to support a facist, and please dont came to me to say about the evil of the usa because a know very well, their shit my country too, never support a facist or give then an opportunitty
My point is that Democrats enabled a Fascist to have any chance of winning and seem to have no regrets about it. Any half competent candidate should have run laps around Trump, a convicted felon and known rapist. As long as they keep supporting the democratic party and making excuses for it despite that, stuff like this will keep happening. They need to find a way to hold their party accountable. Blaming the voter is the absolute opposite of that. I say this not to encourage anyone to vote for Trump, but to make people stop wasting time blaming the voters and start holding Democratic party accountable.
Who else would you blame when you lost a vote?
Something not directly involved?
Beep boop?
Who do you blame for climate change? The sun, chemistry or humans releasing chemicals to the atmosphere?
Arguably all 3 contribute to climate change, but only the last one is something you can change. So you blame humans, because it is the only productive option.
In an election, you can blame the party that lost or the voters. Blaming the voter is about as productive as blaming the sun, distracting from what changes have to happen in the Democratic party to guarantee a win in the next election.
Trump is just saying the quiet part loud. The Democrats aren’t any different. The last 15 months of genocide proves this.
Americans need to face facts, your country is a bloodthirsty empire that steals the resources, freedoms and conspires against oppressed people.
Trump has no alternative but to jump off the edge of the grand canyon
So America will take ALL Gazans, right, right?
comment section full of spineless beggars who wants everyone to live on fake crumbs thrown by dnc hacks. what’s biden, harris and pelosi doing these days ? they seems to have made fortunes pretending to represent us and now enjoying themselves leaving us and palestinians to get fcked same as under biden. are we all forgetting biden hugging the scum netanyahu and him getting a standing ovation for murdering millions with our money.
aipac owned kamala would be no different other than wording it with lots of word salad of “allies”and right to defend (genocide).
reality is our country has became a rotten oligarchy owning both parties and they see normal voters as no different than how israelis see palestians. they will happily butcher us and our kids for an extra yatch
In fairness, this is BS. A leaked Israeli paper from early 2024 stated that that IDF and the Israeli’s government overall goal WAS to remove all people from Gaza. Once and for all, if they could get away with it. The fact they systematically destroyed whole towns and places of culture educates us and reinforces that this was the plan all along. Trump is an Israeli puppet, nothing changes there, but the removal of people and the destruction of Gaza was the Israeli plan all along. This was known.
It is THEIR land. Their home. Why should they be shipped anywhere? That is an outright crime.
Source on that leaked paper please?
I believe they’re referring to this paper.
A chilling reminder that we are currently at the “Madagascar plan” stage of the Palestinian genocide.
Hey at least the genocide will be over! Trump is so much better than Kamala on this!
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I searched the link you posted and did not find a single mention of Kamala?
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The vice president doesn’t have the power to overrule the president in any capacity.
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This article is about an American president declaring his intentions to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip. This article is very clearly about American politics.
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Jesus fuck you really think it was MSM libs that opposed you here.
Anarchist, know more than you, and it was completely evident this would happen which is objectively worse. Stop the cope.
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Well, I knew this. A pragmatic anarchist who advocates for the better option. I’m anti-fascist before I’m an anti-statist. Give me liberalism any day of the week vs what’s coming. (Thx again eejit)
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It’s crazy how easy trump and his buddy netanyahu played you guys in a way that it benefited him. The American left completely splintered into subgroups that all hated each other and nobody was good enough to be an ally. If you were slightly right or even left of their firm views, your help wasn’t wanted. Just a bunch of left leaning voters slinging shit at each other and NOT voting. Meanwhile the right was unified and laughing at you guys, way to go. You shot yourself in the foot and call it a win cause you got blood on the democrats.
The same democrats you are now demanding should save you from all this shit you guys enabled.
Sincerely, a Canadian.
This is the most accurate assessment of the whole situation I’ve seen.
Why are you blaming the people for not supporting genocide? Shouldnt the focus be on the supposed progressive party that did everything to enable the fascist party winning, because they refused to stop the genocide, acknowledge the economic hardship of working class people and all the other things a progressive party should do?
The US has a fascist and a far right party. The far right party is enabling the fascist party and they are still doing it right now with voting more and more of Trumps people into elected government positions.
And if there had been more pressure on the Democrats prior to the election, they might had been forced to abandon the genocide and some of their oligarch donors. Trump couldn’t have played this, if the DNC wasn’t supporting his game at every step of the way.
First they kept lying straight about how Biden was totally fit for office, as everyone could see him blitzed out of his mind. Then they put Harris who ran on “vibes”, downplayed the economic hardship for working class people and denied any sincere discussion with people opposing the genocide. Finally they brought on the war criminal and mass murderer Cheney to really drill home the fact, that the party has no ethics and only cares about money and power. Just that they like to use soft power on their own citizens, rather than hard power. And as good joke to the end Biden talked about oligarchs but claimed there to be good billionaires vs. the bad billionaires.
Stop blaming the people. Blame and fight the oligarchy that is represented in all of the political elites and their billionaire lords.
Talk is cheap. If you didn’t vote you directly sped up genocide. This was predictable and obvious for anyone not posturing from their warm homes on social media. Perfect was the enemy of better or at least slower at the direct and tangible expense of real Palestinians. At least you can all spend your time trying to defend the move instead trying to prevent an obviously fascist government from doing it. Those likes though.
As it stands currently there is much more aid getting into Gaza and much less Palestinians are murdered than throughout all of Bidens presidency since Oct. 8 2023 until a few days before he left office.
The idea that things would be better for Palestinians under the current DNC elites and who they put into power has no empirical basis.
If you didn’t call for fighting against the Biden administration over its support for the genocide, but now call for fighting against the Trump administration over it, your reasons are not related to the genocide. You cannot accept the genocide by one administration and reject the genocide by another administration. In this case you simply do not consider the genocide an important issue.
And this is crucial to understand. In regards to the genocide in Gaza, but more generally to the US being a murderous and racist empire, the Republicans and Democrats are both pillars of maintaining this status quo. And we see again right now, that many Democrats are eager to support the Trump administration now, instead of fighting it. Because they want to maintain the empire for the oligarchs. They just fight over the flavor of oligarchy.
So the solution will not come from helping the current DNC elites maintain power. It can only come from removing all current political elites and the oligarchs who they represent.
…because of a ceasefire Biden admin spent months brokering. It’s like you all don’t realize time exists. 🤦♂️
The same ceasefire that was on the table since April and was sabotaged by Israel repeatedly with no consequences from the Biden administration. And before that there were other ceasefire initiatives, that the Biden administration did not push Israel for. Also Biden himself praised how his team worked together closely with Trumps team in making the current ceasefire (that gets violated by Israel regularly) happen.
Finally Biden and Blinken kept repeatedly lying about Hamas not wanting a ceasefire, when it was Israel sabotaging the ceasefire negotiations, while Hamas kept saying they agreed to the proposal.
You simply cannot reject all the empirical evidence and flee into some idea of the actions of Biden to be somehow better, leave alone justifiable. More than 50,000, realistically more than 100,000 murdered Palestinians and the destruction of almost all of Gaza prove the contrary.
Trump now claiming that Palestinians would need to leave Gaza, because it became unlivable, screams to ask who made it unlivable. And there is more than 17,000,000,000 $ worth of bombs, that Biden delivered to Israel to make this destruction happen, as an answer to that.
Trump is speaking the quiet parts out loud. But Biden was steadfast in making it happen. And he and Harris kept emphasizing throughout the election campaigning, that they will stand by Israel no matter what. The reality is that both the DNC and the Reps want this genocide. They want to expand the US empire for their oligarchs. They will absolutely murder everyone who stands in the way of the empire, unless they are stopped from it.
And this is not a new story. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan… Palestine is just another item on the list of bipartisan murder and destruction.
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A now Trump is sending our children to die in a foreign land so he can enrich himself further. Slow clap to all the “winners.”
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Rofl. Biden/Harris trying everything they could to circumvent the blockade to get supplies into Gaza. Trump literally saying he wants to expel the remaining Palestinians and take their land for himself.
You will never admit you were wrong. You will go to your deathbed self assured with yourself that you never compromised on your ideals no matter what actually happens to Gazian Palestinians.
If it wasn’t abundantly obvious to the rest of ya’ll before, these soapbox “never genocide” bad actors never gave a single shit about what happens Palestinians.
Trying everything except:
- not sending weapons
- supporting UN actions to stop it
- sending peacekeeping forces
- sending relief supplies
- not supporting a rogue nuclear nation
- financial embargo on Israel
Check their comment History. They’re not here in good faith at all. Just call them out and move on, but they don’t deserve a debate on this.
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Biden/Harris trying everything they could to circumvent the blockade to get supplies into Gaza
What a bold lie. Biden vetoed UN votes to stop the blockade. He defended the Israeli military shooting unarmed Palestinians who approached the blockade and approved of Israel blocking the investigations of the deaths of NGO workers.
You could argue Biden was more in favor of peace than Trump is, but in practice he didn’t differ from Trump’s previous term on Israel. His record is clear.
Who do you think is paying for the blockade?
Rofl
Red flag number one, laughing about genocide.
Biden/Harris trying everything they could to circumvent the blockade to get supplies into Gaza
Except applying diplomatic pressure, Except taking military assets and delivering the supplies (besides the stupid symbolic airdrops that didn’t even come close to meeting requirements and killed a bunch of people). Except stopping arming, or even threatening to stop arming, the military that was blocking those supplies - in contravention of international and US law. Except Antony Blinken literally falsifying reports to Congress about “Israel” blocking supplies, because that would legally implicate the Biden administration for continuing to arm them.
Trump literally saying he wants to expel
“Saying”. That’s the problem with you. All you hear is words. You don’t read bills. You don’t look at arms shipments. You don’t read the history. You look at headlines.
What did i just say?
“This genocide started under Biden, with his support, and is continuing under Trump, with his support.”
They absolutely obliterated Gaza with Biden-supplied bombs while he sat there with his hands over his eyes going, “I don’t see anything wrong!” And then after two weeks in office, Trump goes, “oh my god, it’s totally destroyed! We’d better ethnically cleanse them.” while literally sitting next to Netanyahu. And in your brilliant brain, you don’t see the plan at work here.
If it wasn’t abundantly obvious to the rest of ya’ll before, these soapbox “never genocide” bad actors never gave a single shit about what happens Palestinians.
You are the one laughing in a message about their genocide. Look at my message. Do I sound like I’m fucking laughing?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
ROFL
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Engage with honesty and integrity and compassion, or stop fucking responding to my comments.
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Bro it isn’t worth it. I respect what you are trying to do, but Lemmy is an echo chamber on these things. You are completely right in what you are saying, but you’re wasting your time commenting here.
Clearly, if Kamala had won she would have personally resurrected every dead Palestinian and single-handedly repaired all the infrastructure. Let’s conveniently ignore that she was Vice President in an administration that circumvented Congress multiple times to deliver arms with less oversight, that (almost) every US elected official has vocally supported Israel’s actions for 70+ years, and that Kamala herself committed to nothing of substance on the topic.
Wow… this is almost every logical fallacy rolled into one comment.
Bravo!
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Honestly thank you for being here and writing this. The “but Kamala” comments are super hurtful to me because I remember how the Americans have been treating us ever since. My entire family is displaced from Palestine, had to abandon studies in Syria, Iraq back in the day, had to flee again from Kuwait, my friends and acquaintances together have lost hundreds of family members. We have lost family members and ongoing trauma from having lived under occupation. It’s unbearable and you can’t even do therapy because it’s still going on, you can’t get closure.
I don’t know a single Palestinian out there who hasn’t lost family or friends, or who has family or friends who moved abroad for good.
We’ve been suffering from ethnic cleansing, apartheid, collective gaslighting since 1948 and we’ve been facing violence and terror since even much longer. As if it would make a difference to us if the person who’s literally providing the means to annihilate us is saying nice words while doing the opposite? Trump is escalating our annihilation and we never doubted that, but the Gaza genocide alone has been going on for almost 1.5 years and there was no Trump.
Many people here really don’t seem to care about the actual people. The same way we aren’t human to Trump & the Zionists, I don’t feel human when Harris supporters use Palestinians to say “I told you so”.
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Aaaah. Now you want to work together. Imagine that! When we asked you all to help keep this from happening, we were told to take our genocide supporting asses and go fuck ourselves.
Now, you’re wanting to play nice? Naaah. I’m calm as a stone too when I tell you that if you didn’t vote, or protested with a bullshit third party loser, you did this.
And we deserve to be angry about it.
Aaaah. Now you want to work together. Imagine that! When we asked you all to help keep this from happening, we were told to take our genocide supporting asses and go fuck ourselves.
I wasn’t on Lemmy since ~late 23 until after the election. Who is “you”? It’s not me.
My specific quotes at the time looked a lot like what I just wrote. Pointing out that the power of the people is in choosing their own candidates, not being handed them by the media and party apparatuses. That the two parties are visibly cooperating on genocide and that the only meaningful course of action is for the people to overthrow them.
I’m sorry, did someone else just say this?
Get your shit together so we can actually fix this.
That not you pretending there’s a “we” here? Because again, if you voted third party, or stayed home- you are openly admitting that you know nothing about the threat we faced, about how elections actually work, and about what the word “we” means.
There is no we that I am a part of that includes you. We tried to stop this. YOU didn’t.
You didn’t try to stop shit. You watched a genocide and voted for the same people committing it, because the only thing that mattered to you was your own ass. You weaponize marginalized people to act like you’re the hero of the story, but you only care about yourself. People who care about justice and have their entire lives know damn well that the entire system needs to be replaced.
Our only chance is unity. Even if I fucking hate people like you. That’s always been the case. That’s been the only chance out of a system where even the “opposition” supports genocide for our entire lives. Whether it’s 2024, or 2028, or picking up the rubble in 2032. But you know what destroys unity? PEOPLE WHO FOLD INTO THE SYSTEM AND DESTROY OUR UNITED FRONT AGAINST OUR OPPRESSORS.
What specifically did you do to try to stop it other than rant and rave on the internet and not vote for certain people?
I didn’t vote for a single person that committed genocide, so stop with the false accusations and… answer this:
Did you stay home when the rest of us voted to stop trump? It’s a simple yes or no.
And you’ve no place to speak of unity when you stood against everyone that stood against trump.
No, it’s unity AGAINST mass murderers. Not unity SUPPORTING them. Even if there’s two of them and one of them is 5% worse!
And I can already hear it. “You only had two choices!” Then I reject your stupid fucking choices.
Some of you all are just in full freakout mode these past two weeks. I’m calm as stone. Know why?
Because none of Trump’s executive orders personally affect you or anyone you love. Must be nice.
Unfortunately it’s not that way for everyone. Many of us are trying to figure out how to survive the next four years without dying to a preventive illness or ending up in a concentration camp, so I’m not sorry if us “freaking out” offends you.
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No, because I have decades of trauma that you people are just beginning to feel.
As I went on to explain in my comment, which for some reason you felt the need to just selectively quote and then reframe in some completely bullshit way.
Oh, so now it’s “get the fuck over it”? Both sides are totally the same!
I don’t think so, bebe. You motherfuckers will NEVER be permitted to live this down. This is YOUR fault. We will make you choke on it.
Not even fucking remotely what I said.
I’m calling it, this era will be worse than the bush era when it comes to American atrocities.
What the fuuuck, the United States of America is going to own a part of the Gaza Strip. Are we restarting colonialism?!
As if Israel would let the US take what it (wrongly) considers theirs.
Do you think places like Puerto Rico and American Samoa are states or colonies? Do you think they get good political representation? It never ended lol
American colonialism and imperialism never ended.
So…. Are both sides still the same? Asking for a friend.
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Put the rhetoric aside, and the answer is yes. Israel stole a lot of land from Palestinians under both Democratic and Republican presidents and kept them under an oppressive apartheid system depriving them of their rights. Both parties vetoed UN resolutions to stop or even condemn the practice.
The Israeli government proposed annexing the West Bank in violation of international law, and while one president said he disagreed with the idea, he said he’d back Israel if they did. The other one said he’d support the idea and back Israel either way. Putting aside the rhetoric or intentions, the action is the same. That’s why Palestinians aren’t cheering when one party wins over another in US elections, because they saw what happened when republicans or democrats won; their situation didn’t change. If you feel otherwise, go visit and talk to them like I did.
Alright. So let’s assume for the moment that you’re right, and both parties would do exactly the same thing regarding Palestine. Just for the sake of argument.
Then they’re still not the same.
Would Kamala have handed entire departments of the U.S. government over to Musk? Would Kamala have signed a bazillion EO’s, taking away people’s rights? Would Kamala send thousands of people to Guantanamo? Would she have allowed ICE to raid schools or hospitals? Would she be systematically erasing transgender people from public life? Would Kamala be scrubbing databases and removing information (CDC for example), or making people waste time to delete certain terms from every database and website because of “woke” or “DEI”? Would Kamala have taken the U.S. out of the WHO? Or the Paris Agreement? Would Kamala be threatening to annex Greenland? Or start trade wars with allies? Or do petty shit like removing the option for regular Americans to file taxes for free online? Or pardon 1500+ violent idiots, at least 4 of whom have already been commiting new (and running from old) crimes? Would she install an antivaxer, who also promotes raw milk, to Health and Human Services? Or abolish the Department of Education?
Would she, would she, would she?
They. are. not. the. same.
And you repeating the same tired bullshit over and over and over will not suddenly make it true. You can try to convince yourself that what you did was the morally right thing, but in your own words: put aside the rhetoric and intentions. The consequences are on you.
But anyway, we both know that Kamala would not be the same regarding Gaza. Never would she have said she wants to “take over Gaza” and “own it” and to turn it into the “Riviera of the Middle East” to create “thousands of jobs.” She would never have proposed the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think she would have done anything to actually help Palestinians, aside from some symbolic stuff or vague threats she will never act on. Somehow Americans seem to just love Israel, whatever horrific shit they pull, they’ll always side with Israel.
But “both sides are the same” is a blatant fucking lie.
It was a rhetorical question. The answer is demonstrably no.
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Both sides aren’t exactly the same, but why don’t you want more differences?
Sides could be irrelevant of we replaced First-past-the-post voting with a more representative electoral system. The solution is more democracy, not gleefully telling people they have no choice but to vote for your preference.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
We know.
But that wasn’t the point, was it?
Yes, they’re doubling-down.
