Is it bots? Are those humans whos mission is to cause chaos? Is the weird behaviour caused by the creation of the concept of lemmy?
Somebody please explain to me wtf is going on.
They answer destructive comments, assuming shit, demanding shit. Are they trolls?
Are they being paid for causing chaos? It’s insane
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It’s a combination of tankies and some more level headed leftists. They do have a decent proportion of OK users and the occasional decent meme, but the frequent genocide denialism and too many tankies have resulted in a lot of blocks and bans.
The “Just Kidding, but maybe not” kind of memes are both common in the tankie group as well in the right-wing group, which makes me thing it’s just the same people with different costumes, also known as a reskinned model.
Sounds like political compass shit, left or right, but primarily in the “authoritarian” top half
The political compass has got to be the most bullshit metric, I’m according to the compos a left libertarian. It doesn’t account for theory and for people who are marxist and understand that communism has not yet materialised. Anyway just a slight annoyance i have.
The Political Compass doesn’t actually mean anything, you cannot simplify political views to a grid, moreover nobody is “authoritarian,” people have different views on centralization vs decentralization. For example, Marxists believe in a fully publicy owned, centrally planned economy, whereas Anarchists believe in full horizontalism. I would describe the Marxist system as having more potential for democracy, as you have a unified system and thus your votes and voice covers a broader area, whereas an Anarchist would disagree, most likely.
It’s that horseshoe again.
Far left and far right, hand in hand, both reminiscing for a 1950s that never existed. One in Russia and one in America.
“reskinned model”, lol, interesting application of the concept. I like.
Horseshoe theory
Authoritarians are authoritarian first. Left or right is an afterthought. No horseshoes required.
That is the base of the horseshoe theory.
Only if you have a juvenile concept of political Spectrum. That only extends across one dimension. Leninists are barely nominally left-wing. In practice most of them are State capitalist and not at all left wing.
In practice social Democrats and even Democratic socialists tend to be more left-leaning than leninists. And don’t feel a reactionary need to Slaughter or imprison those that disagree with them regularly. I mean if we are going by the providing social benefit to your chosen class of people qualifies a socialism. Then that would make the Nazis socialist. Which they most definitely we’re not.
Why would democratic socialists be less left-leaning than social democrats?
The order was not meant to be significant. And purely just a construct of a stream of consciousness speech to text. Though you aren’t wrong.
Yes, the theory comes from the superficial observation that the actions of the nominal extremes look very similar. And when your head is being crushed by the boot of authoritarianism you don’t care if it is the right foot, or the left foot wearing it.
At one time there were many concepts of what Socialism is, and at the time nazism was A socialism, of course completely opposite of the concepts that survived.
Hardly. Lennonism still exists. It’s highly similar. In fact Lenin and Stalin helped Hitler invaded Poland. And exterminated their own ethnic polish population in Russia. Leninists still defend these actions to this day and hypocritically criticize “the west”.
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If you go far enough left, you end up back on the right.
Lol I literally got banned from ml for “horseshoe theory”
I would argue authoritarian ‘leftism’ is just a misnamed right wing ideology wearing the sheepskin of socialism, where as Anarchism / Libertarian Socialism is the ‘real’ far left.
I’m sort of new to Lemmy, having only been here a few months, and I started my first account here in world, the one I am commenting with.
What I found is that world has many cool and fun and interesting communities, but for news ( world or USA centered) is really centralist USA based. World has cut off access to many other cool and interesting communities that may have different viewpoints here and there.
I think the few experiences by trolls here from other communities is more of a walled garden thing, and if world has a more inclusive mix this would solve a lot of issues .
Me migrating to another instance still allows me to participate here in world, and I simply ignore what I don’t like here and elsewhere.
Honestly, world has as many issues with gatekeeping and power hungry mods as instances and the only way to get the full lemmy experience is to pick and chose what fits best with oneself
I think the few experiences by trolls here from other communities is more of a walled garden thing, and if world has a more inclusive mix this would solve a lot of issues .
You say be more inclusive of tankies and I say learn about the paradox of tolerance.
It’s not wall to wall tankees , this is only a minority. Which for the non tanker, can be avoided and ignored.
I was talking more of a general problem by deciding what I wanted to censor myself rather than letting others do it for me. Baby and bath water analogy and all that.
And this extends way beyond tankees and piracy.
And since people are talking about hexbear, it does have the best Syrian news coverage
If you call out genocide denialism you get banned. That’s enough for me to consider it wall to wall tankies
Yep. If you have nine tankies sitting at a table and a person joins them you have 10 tankies sitting at the table. It works the same as it does for fascists.
It’s like saying that there we’re good people in Nazi germany. Therefore we should have tolerated Hitler. Why?
insert cutesy pic of young Stalin
If you call out genocide denialism you get banned.
Which is the reason I stopped participating in some of world’s news and political communities, but because of a different genocide.
But I certainly did not go running to a community that promoted denial of other crimes. Instead I use the power of lemmy to pick and chose healthy communities.
Each instance has communities which are toxic.
That’s true in general.
Indeed I’ve witnessed Palestine denial on .world, but I’d hardly call it the prevailing sentiment on any mainstream comm there. Each time the comment would be ratioed and loudly disagreed with, which is encouraging.
I will acknowledge that .world mods have some serious pet projects and issues which is very concerning.
It’s something that is sporadically done, by some people based on the phase of the moon or what they feel like; but it’s tolerated by the other mods.
One does not see it much unless it happens to oneself or it’s read about elsewhere. However it certainly has an effect and perhaps is one of the reasons there are cycles of low engagement ( or at least lower than normal). Often people like me who have issues with it just quietly go elsewhere, which I more or less done.
But once I moved away, choosing a non political server as my new home, I was exposed to all the communities world blocks, and it was then I realized I had been censored
I feel the same but ive given up on Lemmy. Probably need to find another platform for more grown up discussions.
Even reddit is far better. Hate to say it but it’s true.
Tell us if you find a better alternative.
You won’t
Its a people problem, not a platform problem.
I know. But there are different platforms catering to different people, interests etc. I’m part oft some Linux, Free Software, special interest forums. And there definitely are communities with a very different atmosphere… So I wouldn’t say it’s impossible just because people are people.
I think any large collection of people online are going to have issues similar to here; and while the distributed social networks have a distressing tendency to bunch up and get tribal, it’s better than only one instance, such as Reddit.
That said, I think these can be improved later
Yup, that’s pretty much spot on. I don’t really have a problem with .world myself. I do hear a lot of complaints about admin powertrips, but I’ve never used .world so I have not experienced this myself.
The problem is that the tankies are running the instance and get off on banning anyone that doesn’t toe the line of the party ideology.
Please remember that some people don’t know the lingo yet.
New people for example. New people who might come to this thread trying to learn about the different instances.
They’ve got Google.
They were founded after being kicked off reddit, then self isolated from the fediverse for years, creating the echoiest of echo chambers. It’s like those Appalachian families that were so isolated they basically developed their own culture, language and all. They’ve spent too long “struggle sessioning” together and driven out any of the more reasonable users with their purity tests. They think they’re the “true” Lemmy users and only refederated to “spread the word” and antagonize all the “liberals” (read: anyone that’s not 100% with them). The one thing I dislike about my server is that they haven’t defederated from that place.
It’s like those Appalachian families that were so isolated they basically developed their own culture, language and all.
Very apt description. You forgot the inbreeding part; very much relevant for Hexbear.
One note, “liberal” to them is synonymous with “nazi,” and they do actually, openly, want to kill you for being one (from this comment alone lol, and me too, and everyone else they label liberal). They’re losers who will never succeed in revolution, and most of them won’t do anything beyond cry online, but they should still be considered dangerous and untrustworthy as one of them is liable to pull some dumb shit in the name of their religion and their god Marx (yes it is a religion if they treat it like one.)
and antagonize all the “liberals” (read: anyone that’s not 100% with them).
Yup
It’s like those Appalachian families that were so isolated they basically developed their own culture, language and all.
The fediverse has eyes.
I mean… Fuck liberals though
What do you mean “they think they are the true Lemmy users?” Most on Hexbear only browse the local feed. Secondly, which struggle session got rid of the “reasonable people?” Are you referring to the time they kicked out all of the transphobes, and now have one of the largest concentrations of trans individuals on Lemmy? Genuinely, what “reasonable” opinion has been discarded?
Thank you! You seem like a pre-Reddit-fallout-lemmy-user :)
I specifically chose my instance because it’s not blocking or blocked by too many instances. I like the input from most sides, but will not comment much on hexbear posts I guess. Not worth it.
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Any server federated with them is unusable as far as I’m concerned.
purity tests
What purity test exactly do you feel is too much? Respecting pronouns? Not supporting capitalism? Not doing racism? I’m not aware of anything they ban for that any reasonable leftist shouldn’t pass.
I’m not aware of anything they ban for that any reasonable leftist shouldn’t pass.
Not sucking Xi’s or Putins dick for one, tankie
Anti-imperialism should not wrap around to supporting everyone and everything fighting against the imperial core. You can theorize about the social conditions that inevitably led to Putin’s existence or share statistics about development in China, but you shouldn’t ignore it when either does something bad just because “the US is also doing that/something similar!!!”
Found the hexbearian. 🤦🏼♂️
I didn’t say ban.
All responsible server admins have them defederated. Hate speech and genocide denial, that is almost certainly against the law in Canada, Germany, and other places. We defederated lemmygrad for the same reason.
I specifically chose my instance because it’s not blocked or being blocked by too many instances.
I’d rather judge myself what I want to be exposed to.
I guess server admins who haven’t defederated them are either with them ORRR they put more responsibility towards their users.
Or they live in a country where genocide denial is legal. I live in Canada and my server is in Canada. I’m not willing to take the risk so my users can interact with assholes.
I thought the same thing, but got worn down by the constant negativity and rage.
In your instance’ case, db0 has said IIRC that the Anarchists on Hexbear, while not aligning 100% with them, are generally good and worth being federated with.
There is an instance block feature you can use in the settings as a user, that seems to work pretty well for not seeing hexbear stuff
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I got a bit of harassment from hexbear users when I started using Lemmy, haven’t in a while now though, I have blocked around 30 of them and instance block
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My instance is hosted in Germany and does not seem to defederate from hexbear, I’m subscribed to !history@hexbear.net from this account.
I’m sorry to hear that, you should fix that.
I don’t want it to. I think instance admins should be defederating from spambot farms, but not much more than that; if there’s a chance some of its users want to read it, they should allow its users to.
That is, I want my instance admins to engage in moderation, but not censorship. I think defederating from extremist politics (whether far-left or far-right) is usually censorship, not moderation.
That’s not what censorship means. As per defenderating from spambot farms… That’s half of hexbear really
If that is so, I have yet to notice it in the wild.
What do you mean?
You’re going to have to be a bit more specific. What’s what needs clarification?
What do you mean “half of Hexbear is spambot farms?”
Hexbear isn’t driven by real people, it’s a politically-motivated, organized effort to spread disinformation.
So basically spambots are fine as long as they are spouting something political?
That’s the opposite of what they said.
What had me block the instance was how the majority of Hexbear posts and users I was encountering initially was how annoyingly spammy they were. Acting like Lemmy was Twitch chat, spamming giant ugly reaction stickers everywhere, literally behaving like 12 year olds.
Then I also started to notice the far-right authoritarian simping buried under all that chaos.
Yes! The fucking stickers are so annoying.
My understanding of the stickers is that on their instance they aren’t massive. So it’s some disconnect between their UI and others. But I might be misremembering.
If I see a comment with 12 replies, all from the same instance, all just the same emoji over and over, I don’t care that it’s small, that’s spam to me. They have their culture, so let them have fun. But I’m not part of it, so leave me out, it’s annoying. I think both of these are fair takes.
Yeah, as the other comment says, my understanding is the stickers are the size of an emoji on their instance. Something about either federation or the client on their server messes it up. Maybe some clients have fixed it, but mine (Sync) has not. Maybe it’s unfixable if you aren’t from their instance.
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that’s insulting to 14 year olds
I was once an edgy online 14 year old idealist, my behavior was identical.
It’s where r/chapotraphouse went after it got banned from reddit.
That sub was so disappointing. I stumped upon it by mistake one day, thinking that I’d find cheapo trap house music there. It sounded like a fun genre to listen to, like back in the early 2010s when brostep was huge. Miss those days…
I miss old school dubstep, brostep took the scene and made it into a monster energy drink ad.
The only people I know who like that stuff are Europeans, and the kind of DJs who use Traktor. Never heard of anyone outside of the internet who actually enjoyed dubstep until it was Americanized.
Thankfully those of us on world have not had to deal with them for the better part of a year. There’s so much wrong there it’s kind of hard to know where to begin.
All I will really say for now is that they are perfect anti advocates for the things at the surface level they advocate for.
You would think having a healthy discourse and talking to each other, exchanging ideas would be better to proliferate a certain ideology.
All they do is try to insult or demand one is an all knowing being. Some read my comment and assume I’m from us and have to know every agency there is.
If they want to bring their ideologies out there they should stop trying to be destructive. All they accomplish is a negative image of their movement.
It’s like a 14 yo has learned about communism and is now super edgy towards everybody because he thinks he’s hacked the system.
They existed on their own Lemmy instance for years before federating at some point last year.
So, they likely had their own way of interacting, commenting, moderating etc that worked for them, that they had used/built/developed themselves (I mean systems & rules, not software) for years.
And they federated shortly after the Reddit API exodus.
So an echo chamber of extreme left wing users suddenly getting to interact with a whole bunch of new people, and an inrush of more mainstream users. It made for an interesting 6 or so months.I haven’t had any bad interactions with them directly, however I have seen and disagreed with a lot of their behaviour.
Not sure if I have their instance blocked, or if my instance has defederated them.It’s like a 14 yo has learned about communism and is now super edgy towards everybody because he thinks he’s hacked the system.
Yes. Exactly.
Certain authoritarian ideologies and well, ideologies in general. Depend on rejecting ideas and evidence. Ideologies are ideal, but not real. So it tends to devolve into shouting and name calling. Leninists hypocritically haranguing liberals and vice versa etc.
I would definitely be down for some anarco communism. But I think it’s offensive to repeat the misnomer that ML is communism. Or ever has, ever will lead to communism. Anyone who looks to enact change through brutal, murderous suppression via a vanguard party. Could hardly exude a more juvenile thinking vibe. That “it’s okay/good when we do it” BS.
I learned something from your comment. Thank you.
Explains a lot of things that happen rn. Gaza, Ukraine, harsh cut between right/left.
Weird how an ideology that depends on rejecting ideas and evidence keeps adapting to new evidence and contexts.
I wonder why Cuban marxism is so different than Chinese marxism which is different from Soviet marxism, which is different from every south american country’s marxisms.
One might even think they’re taking a Scientific approach to Socialism.
Interesting how in every case, they betray their anarchist allies as soon as they get even a feeble hold of state power. There must be a really good peer reviewed paper that conclusively suggests that must be done. Scientifically.
The thing is they see anything remotely right of them as equal to being a card carrying SS Nazi. They have no capacity to consider shades of gray, incremental progress, etc. It’s all or nothing, fuck you if you don’t abide.
If you aren’t dogmatically against absolutely positively every single detail of life in the west, you aren’t good enough.
.world ain’t exactly the glass hill to throw stones from yathink?
No server is. All of them are imperfect. However world is better than hex or grad. It is a simple fact. Regardless of whether you like it. Granted it is a low bar. Being heavily devoted to a heavily disproven ideology sort of puts you on the back foot to start with. But leninists have never let that stop them. But we absolutely do get a mix here on world since it isn’t an echo chamber. Leninists and fascists alike.
Being heavily devoted to a heavily disproven ideology
China is the largest economy in the world and has brought nearly a billion people out of poverty. Within a single lifetime, the USSR went from peasant farmers experiencing regular famine to putting people in space. And then capitalism brought back famine in the 90s. Cuba has a longer life expectancy than America.
Well when you kill a bunch of your people to do it, kinda negates the whole argument, eh?
They killed far fewer people under siege than capitalism does when it’s running entirely unopposed and with half the planet being immiserated for its benefit. Every year capitalism causes about 846,000 excess deaths in America alone.
Thankfully those of us on world have not had to deal with them for the better part of a year.
.world was never federated with hexbear, .world defederated “preemptively, as a last resort”
This perception is common on .world because some liberals have been lying about hexbear to encourage censoring the left even before then.
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I’m not sure if the “this interpretation” reference is about the “preemptive defederation as a last resort” or the “lying” bit, but the first doesn’t need an interpretation because it was stated in the post:
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected. We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons.
The “lying” bit… I’m not sure where that comes from. It’s not the best “informed rhetoric,” that’s for sure.
The most obvious lie being claiming that hexbear was federated with lemmy.world and were just so awful they had to be defederated.
If the opposition has inconvenient facts, just tell the audience opposition is an asshole you shouldn’t listen to.
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Which is exactly what you do, so well done on eating your own dog food.
Hahahaha, many of us have had first hand experience of hex - they attack people for the littlest ring, insult, denigrate, etc.
So stop your gaslighting.
What little thing are you being attacked for? The worst I’ve experienced was being called an atlanticist in a discussion on North Korean military preparedness.
Quoting your other comment:
China is the largest economy in the world and has brought nearly a billion people out of poverty. Within a single lifetime, the USSR went from peasant farmers experiencing regular famine to putting people in space. And then capitalism brought back famine in the 90s. Cuba has a longer life expectancy than America.
If it talks like a tankie and quacks like a tankie…
I must have misremembered lemmygrad then. Same difference. I’ve encountered hexbears on other servers. It’s one of many reasons I don’t log into Midwest.social for instance. Well more that their hardware is overloaded. But federation with grad and hex is still a good reason.
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Any link to doxxing?
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How is Marx and Lenin and things associated with transgender stuff? I never understood that
Marxist-Leninists side with the marginalized communities in society because
- It’s the correct thing to do, morally, and
- The only way to gain real progress is to unify marginalized groups, rather than have individual groups fight separately.
I include works that go over these topics in my introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list. Marx and Lenin didn’t really write on transgender struggles, but provided a logical framework of analysis and toolset that logically leads to support for the trans community along with other marginalized groups.
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Great! Parenti has such a witty way of writing, and does a fantastic job contextualizing and humanizing the people of the Global South and AES states. Glad to hear I’ve helped guide you towards his books!
Side note - I really like the mini-genre of Parenti Lofi, his speeches are great and his passion combined with more chill vibes is a good combo, like sweet and salty!
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No problem!
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Thank you
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John Lenin was a Black Women? Shit…I need to read more books…
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I googled that, is that the YouTuber? Cause the account looks to be suspended or locked.
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Fair enough lol
Which client do you use?
Demented illogical people. Also angry and bloodthirsty. Best to not interact. Waste of time.
Hexbear isn’t being paid for anything, they are largely made up of Anarchists and Marxist-Leninists. Hexbear has been unafilliated with Lemmy for years before integrating with Lemmy a year ago.
You might be seeing their zero tolerance policy for liberalism in action, but if you genuinely want to know what their users are about, just visit it. Just hop on over to Hexbear.net and scroll the news megathread and whatnot, try to understand what’s going on.
Finally, I want to question why you believe anyone would be paid to mess with Lemmy, moreover when the lead developers are aligned fairly closely on ideological lines. If they were here to “cause chaos,” why would the devs support them ideologically? To ruin their own network? That narrative is just a wild hypothesis.
The fringes of the political “wings” (left and right) seem similar to me, not so much in policy but in the rabid, simplistic attitudes and outright derision constantly sputtered.
Well put!
Policy is similar too, they want civil unrest and violent overthrow of current governments
Nope, just good ol’ fashioned communists! Beware the red scare!
I have been doing the “The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love” book club at menby@hexbear.net recently which has been my only real interaction with hexbear. The book club has been great so far and if anyone wants to talk about feminism and masculinity should join.
There are a lot of in-group signaling across their own users which mostly shows up with acronyms, specific phrases and calling everyone comrade. This hasn’t been that difficult in the book club which is long form text and discussion and everyone is respectful and nice. That being said I have blocked a few communities at hexbear because I have found them annoying and taking over my feed. So like everything here at Lemmy I had curate my own experience
They have a zero-tolerance policy for political viewpoints that differ from their own. That becomes a breeding ground for an extremely toxic echo chamber.
