On the side bar it lists the following:
- [Matrix/Element]Dead
- Discord
“Discord” is an active link, but the Matrix link is completely inactive. Not only is it inactive (which could have be excused as a broken link), but it is also manually labeled as “Dead”, as if there is no intention of making it work. How can a community that is focused on privacy willingly favor a service that is privacy non-respecting when a perfectly functional privacy-respecting alternative exists?
Because privacy communities are a joke.
Yeah it quickly becomes a dick measuring contest and shunning people for using different things. It becomes very black/white views, and have some crazy out of touch takes, like expecting your grandma to self host lol. They also confuse anonymity with privacy, like how not being able to sign up for something with tor and monero is a privacy violation, it’s not.
Pfft. My gramgram self-hosts on her own LFS build with a hardened kernel and custom written SELinux policies. All your grandparents need to get on her level.
Disclaimer: Everything here is a lie.
like how not being able to sign up for something with tor and monero is a privacy violation, it’s not.
Note that “secrecy” and “privacy” are often understood in Security lingo as different things. One protects confidentiality, the other one protects anonymity.
It’s possible to have one and not the other…
You can have a very private system through onion routing but have the contents of the messages exchanged be in plaintext, open to the public. Nobody will be able to know the one who wrote the message was you. But they can see the message. (then there is privacy, but not secrecy).
Or you can have very strongly encrypted communications (say HTTPS) but have the DNS exchanges (or the TLS handshake, or the IP addresses) be in the clear, so people in the middle (eg. your ISP… or your workplace tech guys) can know exactly that the packages are sent by you and where you sent them, even if their content is encrypted. They can know which service you tried to access to, for how long and how many times (so you have secrecy, but not privacy).
I think it falls into the same pitfalls as most super niche communities, like a lot of subreddits did.
For example, the shaving subreddit (/r/wicked_edge I think?). Its mission statement was to introduce people to cleaner, safer, and more efficient shaving methods. And for the most part, with all of its resources and wikis, it successfully did it. But if you choose to stay after you’ve made your informed purchases, the posts were mostly braggarts showing off their latest hundreds-of-dollars handles, supreme razor blades, brushes made from actual gold, that sort of thing. My point is, the average person (by my guess, like 90% of people going to the site) gets the information they need and then never participate in the community again. But those who stay are those who really want to stay– people who are most likely to brag and boast. So over time, it falls more and more into plain old dick measuring contests.
This obviously isn’t true of all communities, but I think it’s a common pitfall for a lot of them. I can imagine privacy is very similar: take all the steps you can to learn to protect your privacy, and then… you’re good, for the most part.
Wow this is great I am surprised to see people talking about this (let alone even being aware of it).
Really refreshing to not have it to be a contest to follow random dogmas.
Lemmy is refreshingly smarter than I was used to seeing on Reddit.
Hahahaha
Not have it be a contest to follow random dogmas
Lemmy is refreshingly smarter than… reddit
I don’t know if this was intentional or not, but either way this was hilarious!!
Lol this is 100% the truth. Privacy communities are a fucking meme. 99% of posts are just people circlejerking about Firefox vs Brave.
I’ve never gotten why Brave got popular in the first place. I downloaded it once and uninstalled within 3 minutes.
Cromite and Waterfox are all I’ll ever need.
Idk and I don’t care. Just tired of watching the Brave circlejerk. Like everyone knows that company is sketchy as absolute shit. If you still want to use the browser then that’s on you. But I’m tired of seeing people screaming about it in every one of these threads lol
It’s the timeless debate between accessibility and exclusivity. Do you want more people in your community by compromising some values? Or would you rather be a hardliner but never reach those people?
Most of the time you have to pick somewhere on that spectrum. It’s a question of pragmatism and utilitarianism.
Does it do more good for lots of people to be slightly more privacy-aware, or is it better to have a very small portion of the population that are super privacy-aware?
You have to decide, and the debate rages on all the time.
If you compromise on the very topic you’re promoting, you don’t care enough.
Isn’t Lemmy itself a big compromise?
Wait, really? So you think Matrix is the ultimate form of secure and private “chat” communities? Because if it is not then it is a compromise.
This Lemmy instance for sure as hell is not the most private and secure.
In addition to adoption, it takes time for the usability to catch up.
Right now Signal is just as good (IMO better) as Messenger usability wise, but that wasn’t always there.
Matrix needs some time to iron out those issues
I agree to an extent, but usability is not a sufficient condition for mass adoption. I think Lemmy for end users is just as usable as Reddit was, at least for me it is. But people don’t want to leave their communities.
That’s why personally I have a Discord still. There are too many communities I am an active part of on there to abandon Discord outright. Plus all of my friends and family are on there, and I’ve already approached some them about switching and they all have said the same thing I just did.
I wasn’t ever super invested in Reddit, so it was easy for me to abandon it for Lemmy, and I vastly prefer the communities here. Discord though is a different story for now, unfortunately.
Are you able to at least bridge you matrix to the discord? You should, at the very least, be able to do that while also promoting matrix.
Yes there are bridge bots. But discord breaks them, and bands their accounts. Sometimes
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Ehh not really; at least if you care about your own anonymity. Sure the communication is as private as the weakest link (or less because now you have to trust the bot relaying it, too), but nobody from Discord would be able to easily look up your identity.
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Accessibility would be to let people have the choice: making a bridge between Discord, Matrix, Telegram, XMPP, IRC, etc… There are plenty of tools to do that today, it’s not complicated.
How is this more accessible? Have you read the installation instructions? How would someone that has no IT background even manage to configure this? Even just grabbing a binary from the releases page is complicated for a lot of people.
I want a nicely bridget matrix - discord channel, so that the individuals of the community can choose themselves
Most cryptocurrency communities use Discord or Telegram. It’s such an embarrasment.
I’ve never understood this either, given the whole notion and enthusiasm behind decentralization. I get the trade-offs regarding privacy, security, and convenience, but if you’re really tryna start a movement, and you really believe in the concept and principles of something like cryptocurrency, it seems like your communities and communication channels should also reflect similar values.
And that’s where you realize that them defending decentralization is just trying to have a nice-sounding argument instead of assuming their dreams of getting rich with new tech
Crypto enthusiasts don’t really care or understand decentralization. If you talk to crypto bros you will realize pretty quickly that a lot of them are very very low IQ morons.
I was at an event and met a crypto bro. He tried to explain to a group of us that btc is like moss and the world is the forest. A couple people legitimately “got it” and began to get excited about crypto.
Crypto enthusiasts don’t really care or understand decentralization.
I wouldn’t criticize others for their low IQ while making such a dumb generalization.
You should check privacy coin Monero.
Matrix and XMPP is pretty much popular in XMR community
And often discord and telegram channels are bridged with other platforms.
Oh I hate communities that use Telegram. I mean, sure, I guess there’s better privacy, but Telegram was just not built for that. Messages always get lost, and there are no channels, which means no info channel, so they have to try and cram everything into the description.
Should be telling the only two services they use is one infamous for fuck tons of child grooming and one infamous for fuck tons of terrorism.
Because conversations about increasing privacy doesn’t need to be private. It’s usually about learning about other tools and that they exist.
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This only makes sense if discord is a common entry point into the community which seems unlikely to me
Omg fuck discord so much
I don’t understand why it’s so popular… It’s a fancy IRC that’s centralized by a single company
If you legitimately don’t understand why it’s popular, you are seriously out of touch.
- Better moderation tools
- Easier to do voice/video channels
- Easy to create your own server
- Huge amount of useful bots created by the community
- Features like replies, threads, onboarding screens, and custom emotes
Don’t get me wrong, I wish that we could use a FOSS platform instead of Discord, but 1: people are already using Discord and it’s hard to get everyone to switch platform, and 2: there is no comparable alternative right now
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Dude, Matrix mod tools are pretty much universally complained about, and I say that as a person who uses Matrix as a mod.
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Because it has significantly more features than IRC and it’s dead simple to spin up your own “server” where you aren’t beholden much to “admins” or whatever.
fancy IRC
IRC was already “caveman playing with sticks and pebbles” a decade before discord became a thing. It’s really not a good point of comparison and questioning.
Discord became popular for one simple reason: anyone could make a server, share it with a crossplatform link, and others could then try out that link without installing anything. In other words, it became popular because it literally copied Slack and because the Skype era was atrociously bad customization and ease of use-wise compared to the preceding.
Thank you! It’s basically impossible to use discord anonymously
Inb4 aNoNiMiTy iS nOt tHe sAmE aS pRiVaCy
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It literally isn’t.
Because this community (along with all privacy subreddits/communities) are a fucking meme.
Same reason why people use Google products when they could use something else (and note very often that they can’t): it’s more convenient because Google products are better. Because Google has the clout to make them better and bury the competition even more. which is the very definition of monopolistic anti-competitiveness.
Element is garbage in my experience. It’s just not very user friendly, it’s slow, it’s bloated (and no wonder, it’s a React application) and it’s not very stable on the desktop. I tried my best to like it but I just can’t: it’s awful. And unfortunately, as far as I can tell, that’s the best Matrix client out there.
I’m sure the Element people are trying their hardest and I don’t fault them. But I’m pretty sure they don’t have the resources to make it better, unlike Discord. So people staying on Discord is a self-perpetuating prophecy, until someone commits the resources to make Matrix an easy, fast and attractive proposition.
Discord is just the preferred platform for that sort of group-based text comms. It’s better both in a technical sense (more feature-rich and more reliable), and a UX sense, for a majority of users. It’s also free to set up a server, which gives it a huge boost to usability. Matrix has a long way to go if they want to compete.
It’s not free to set up a server on discord. It’s not possible at all.
I know what you actually mean, the word server means that the mods and admins have control over it and they have control over how data stored on the server gets used. The discord definition is misleading in this regard.
On discord, neither of these are true: if the admin’s account is banned (or “suspended” until a phone number is given) they don’t have any control anymore, and regardless of this they don’t have any control over how the data is used (which includes private date like messages of users, how much and when are they online, etc).Yes, I’m using Discord’s terminology for a discussion about Discord. What they call a “server” is not actually a server, but that’s the term they went with.
I could’ve used the Discord dev term “guild”, since that’s how “servers” are referred to internally and in the code, but I don’t think as many people would understand what I meant by that.
Yes, I’m using Discord’s terminology for a discussion about Discord.
A terminology that is (designed to be) very misleading.
I know I’m just a random internet stranger, but please, don’t use the “server” name for discord communities.
This is total bullshit. You should start at the fact that Discord is owned by a chinese company. Then discuss everything else. To me Discord looks and acts like a spoiled child: too many things going on, too many flashy stuff, too manny obnoxious “features”.
You should start at the fact that Discord is owned by a chinese company.
Discord Inc is a privately-owned American company. If you’re referring to Tencent, they are investors, and not owners. And they’re only one of several foreign investors. As for ownership, two dudes share majority ownership of the company.
Then discuss everything else.
Maybe you should do ten seconds of Googling before discussing anything.
Because privacy and convenience are two extreme opposites and you can only go so far in the privacy direction before you start losing everything. Discord just works a million times better as a public forum/community than Matrix and is much more easily accessible to everyone.
There is a limit. I am privacy conscious but I still use all Google Services for example, because they actually provide me with a better web, work, mobile and entertainment experiences. Similarly, I prefer Discord for big communities with channels, server bots and topics, over Matrix.
Edit: all those people saying we can’t be privacy conscious and use Google Services at the same time: yes you can. Their services literally make my life better so I will keep using them, but I keep what I share with them to the absolute minimum. I go into their settings and disable everything I can about tracking and ads personalization (even if they still track me, I do my best not to be). You can surely still be privacy conscious using non-private products. Being extremist is not how you convince average joes to think about privacy, nor by telling them to give up all they use for unknown (for them) alternatives.
i dont think anyone using google services is “privacy conscious”
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I’m told discord is encrypted too, so could you be more specific?
Discord isn’t encrypted at all
It’s encrypted between you and discord. So somebody on your Wi-Fi can’t see what you’re typing. But it’s not encrypted end to end. Discord can see everything that people talk about. And that’s the problem
That’s just ssl tho
Secure socket layer is a type of encryption. So discord can correctly claim it is encrypted. And the commenter above can get confused by that. Confusing user to server encryption and end-to-end encryption where the messages are encrypted between users is important distinction.
Yeah ur right, it is encryption, barely, but it is “military grade encryption”
I guess people just prefer and are more active on Discord
“I guess people just prefer and are more active on Facebook Messenger”
“I guess people just prefer and are more active on TikTok”
It’s the same issue with a lot of open-source software projects. Many use proprietary/closed-source services to communicate with users or develop the software itself. It’s quite ironic, really. 🤦♂️
“discussing privacy on discord” that should be a joke anyways i created privacy@conference.jabbers.one so join if you want
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Why is it always graphene os drama.
Also are you really expecting evidence for a cp/gore flood, like wtf? Not only are you asking for people to screen cap that (like they even have anything to prove), but you only have to be in there a few days to actually see it happen.
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Literally who gives a fuck
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This drama has never brought any good and just brings down everyone involved. He clearly has some issues and that doesn’t need advertising. And that includes me he’s also called an undercover agent or whatever that’s against graphene because I like Firefox. In fact these comments will probably find a way back to him somehow, it’s better to just not feed these things.
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Stop feeding the drama then
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Cringe
