CRISPR and other tools aren’t science fiction anymore. If the wealthy get there first, what happens to everyone else?
No, your assumption is that there is an ideal DNA code when there isn’t. They will still just be people like everyone else.
If anything eventually it’ll be like gardening seeds. Where yeah, there’s a lot of hybrid seeds that might be good for certain traits, but what a bunch of gardeners really want are heirloom varieties that are more naturally-selected and therefore more reliable over multiple generations.
No, not really that either. That is also advocating for eugenics.
We know there are diseases like cystic fibrosis that would benefit from gene editing. That is not an issue to treat.
It’s just that humans need genetic variety or we will go the route of the Gros Michel banana when a disease hits. There are people immune to HIV for instance - that is good for them for some things, but it is likely that means they have other trade offs for this trait. Gene editing everyone to have it could theoretically mean a different disease like giardia or cholera or whatever could be easier to contract and more deadly.
The advantage of humans is adaptability. We need genetic variety to be adaptable. We cannot all be the same. There is no perfect genetic code or perfect “Adam DNA,” (conservatives believe there is an original DNA code that God gave Adam and if they can access it, they will live hundreds of years like the Bible said people did). They think this because they don’t believe in evolution.
Recommend the book “Half Earth” by E.O. Wilson to better understand why genetic diversity is important. It isn’t long at all.
Style and fashion will narrow down the field.
Want to alsonadd (because for some reason I can no longer edit my own comments on any instance) that the wealthy have been stealing the poor’s DNA for millenia and they still look like, well, Mark Davis.
That’s why they love gold diggers, love strippers, athletes (see Serena Williams who is married to a billionare), actresses, etc - they’ve BEEN trying to do this the whole time.
We’re getting the movie Gattaca IRL before Half-Life 3 and GTA 6 smdh
everytime i see “smdh” i think “shake my dick hard” for some reason.
Libertarians not even building Rapture yet and they’re going full Gattaca? How gauche.
We’re still overdue for a eugenics war and WW3 before Star Trek timeline.
Don’t worry, they’re absolutely stupid enough to practice CRISPR to the point where their kids are inbreeding within a generation because their CRISPR fixed genetics made them all too biologically similar to create effectively genetically diverse offspring.
Techno fuedalism is still fuedalism. So that means idiots all at the top.
Wonder what the new Hapsburg chin will be.
Clicked the link to see how many references to Gattaca there would be. Was not disappointed
Don’t worry. The poor will just become extinct like the other hominids that are no longer with us.
It shouldn’t be anything too bad.
Nothing of value was lost /s
But seriously, what a fucking bleak endgame
Nothing lasts forever. Homo sapiens was bound to be replaced by another hominid at some point.
“homo techno” according to grymes, lmao.
I still need to read Red Rising.
As others have said, go see Gattaca. It’s completely about this topic and very interesting.
spoiler
An incredibly powerful scene. I still think about it regularly when thinking about human limitations.
Awesome movie.
Gattaca offered the hopeful promise of profit maximization through mass production of genetic engineering, though it’s unclear if government subsidies helped with the profit maximization.
Time will certainly create political pressure to make the bestest babies for the races who deserve the bestest babies. Maybe that does mean no medicaid coverage.
The strongest case for only ultra rich having access, is that it’s just a status symbol. AI and robotics will do all the work, so why be smart or fit? How smart do you need to be to just support fascist genocide? Being smart is only a path to considering human needs above fascist supremacist needs as a path to sustainability, with sustainability considered of value. Stupidity far more useful to near term “theft profitability with no consequences” of fascism.
Despite being nearly 100 years old, Brave New World (1931), written by Aldous Huxley, covers the idea of class-based genetic engineering and genetics based class definition, as one of its core themes.
Nature takes its course.
Remember the rich tried to keep their genes separate from the masses by inbreeding. Look at where that got them.
Ah the Habsburgs… Not so much a family tree as a family broom handle.
a family wreath
That won’t work anymore if they can just edit their genes
But let’s look at anything that’s had their genes edited, bananas for example. They can’t breed and need to be cloned. One single disease will wipe out that genetically modified banana into extinction.
Same goes for humans. You edit something that’s not tried and tested against the very environment that you live in, you’re instantly vulnerable. Viruses and bacterium evolve much more quickly than we do and you just can’t edit genes fast enough to account for that.
So, on the bright side, the rich who will edit their genes to favour human traits will ultimately suffer the consequences of nature. Was brilliantly covered in War of the Worlds, the novel.
Just keep editing until you beat nature.
We cannot keep depending on that chaos bitch.
Er… Not possible.
Not with that attitude
Yes, we will end up with Eloi and Morlocs
For those not yet genetically engineered to have awareness of literature…
What change would a person who thinks they’re already perfect make?
Can never have too big of a dick. 🤷♂️
When the kid grows up “my dick is too big, I’m transitioning to get rid of it” 😂
Ooor they’ll turn their kids into “pugs” that are ultra-cute and good at passing certain tests but otherwise useless and unhealthy.
I’d definitely prefer we didn’t go down that path, but do consider the endpoint might be more The Time Traveler than Gattaca, because rich people aren’t exempt from being dumb.
If the ‘rich’ are anything about choosing genes as they have been about choosing plastic surgery, we know that most of them will make a complete hack of it and their offspring will suffer for it.
Exactly what I mean! Every time we’ve gotten real, subjective choices about the design of an organism we’ve ended up with something that’s paradoxically kinda bad by anyone’s judgement.
I do wish the ultra wealthy would just become morlocks and go underground forever.
The wealthy became the Eloi in that story, haha. You’re supposed to want to eat them.
You’re right, huge brain fart… I still wish they would all leave us alone forever, analogy or not
Hate to tell you but the morlocks weren’t the rich in that story.
It’s been a while since I read it, and now I’m ashamed because it’s one of my favorite books 😂
The plot of the film Gattaca explores this, the idea of what society looks like when there’s a class of genetically engineered, “superior” people, vs. the naturally born, “inferior” class.
Is that the movie about (sorry for the bad synopsis) Where the guy vacuums his work desk because he wants to go to space?
That is correct
Thank you. I just wanted to make sure I remembered the right movie.
I now challenge anyone who haven’t seen it to deduce the rest of the plot, based only on my description.
Washing yourself in the shower, difficulty level “going to space”
Jude Law, something something treadmill
Gigolo Joe?
Tbh, I think GATTACA barely touched the topic. It focussed so much on the brothers’ rivalry that you could strip out the genetic engineering part and it’d barely change the movie
Yeah it’s a cool movie but the message of systemic disadvantages don’t matter if you try hard enough is a little questionable at best.
I don’t think that was the message at all.
The end message is that the doctor knew all along, and was helping him from the beginning. It didn’t matter how much work he put in, how hard he tried. How much he lied or cheated or “overcame his limitation”, at the end of the day he would have never succeeded without help from a fellow human.
Doing it all himself had started to make him prideful to some degree. And realizing that, in the background, he didn’t do it all himself was a last kick of humility to (ironically) ground the character before he leaves the ground forever.
He knew all along? I guess I didn’t pick up on that. I thought it was just at the very end.
I can see how that might change the message of the film somewhat.
It’s not expressly said. But that’s my take on it from a few different clues. For starters, he wasnt’ surprised by the invalid reading. Also the story that he tells about his son not being “all that was promised” came early in the film, with the doctor saying “who knows what he can achieve” like a wink or a nudge almost.
Whaaat? You mean you can’t overcome a heart defect with a bit more grit?
I think it’s trying to show we are more than just our genetics, there’s a lot of nurture/environment/action that affects outcomes. The protagonist had drive, determination, exercised and worked for the dream. Most eugenic people didn’t have the same drive and took life for granted, so he could outperform them.
Its complicated in its portrayal, for sure. It comes off at a glance like “just signam grindset bro,” but really the protagonist had to lie, cheat and steal his way to his dream, while also being an absolute fatalist while pushing his body near to death. Even then, he still needed to convince a doctor to fake his results at the end. That’s not a pro “grindset” or “you can overcome” message really. It shows how absolutely fucked you are if you aren’t born into advantage, how weighted everything is against you.
The movie would have hit harder if he got to the end and got caught and denied his dream. Just end with him in prison, staring out a window up at the stars.
Agree but people only want to watch happy endings.
… did you watch Gattaca? Also it was kind of a flop so… you are in large company.
Spoilers for a movie that is almost 30 years old I guess
spoiler
Vincent’s brother is more or less mentally broken and likely to face career problems if people ever investigate what actually happened with the investigation… possibly because the astronaut died en route to Jupiter or whatever. Vincent himself is likely on a suicide trip. Jude Law’s character ACTUALLY commits suicide.
Gattaca’s ending is not a happy one. It is exactly what was said during the swimming scene. It is about putting your everything into an endeavor with no care for self preservation or “the swim back”. Which… very questionable understanding of genetics aside (very clear they were on the same sauce that Kojima was…), kind of is the “bootstraps” mentality distilled to a suicide run. Some people can succeed just by virtue of their birth and upbringing. Others more or less need to kill themselves to even have a chance. And… a lot of those people never even make it to the chance, let alone have a way to appreciate it.
I’ve seen it but i don’t remember any of it except the swimming scene. lol
The issue wasn’t “try hard enough”. It was how systematic disenfranchisement hobbles people far more than their genetics.
Once you brand someone as “lesser”, their actual capacity is irrelevant. They won’t be given the opportunity to succeed (much less to fail and try again) while the presumed-superior cohort is offered advantage after advantage in order to prove they are better.
At the end it came down to him going for the launch despite knowing he’d likely get caught and the doctor letting him through despite knowing who he is, because his son was also not engineered, I think the message was people of the under class coming together to fight the system rather than just working hard
I mean… It was showing the extreme lengths he had to go through, the risks he has to take, just to compete for the same opportunities.
For the kinds of class based gene editing we are likely to see, it kinda isn’t. More attractive, bigger boobs, better predisposition to fitness, etc. That is all surmountable.
Where it falls apart are “goofy” looking people likely Michael Phelps who are straight up genetic freaks. But those aren’t the kinds of genes the rich want… For themselves.
I mean, I would expect the first thing they would want to edit would be things like intelligence, level of optimisim/happiness, ability to be a social butterfly, ability to delay gratification and stick to long term goals, etc. In addition to being smokin’ hot, of course.
I really can’t imagine what China is doing…
Trump is directly undermining national safety by abandoning higher education, college visas for foreigners, scientific studies etc.
15 years ago we knew exactly what China was doing. Now? Good luck
He is in many many ways. Thats what i mean with China.
…did you respond to the wrong comment?
I mean with CRISPR…
Chinese researchers publish in the same international journals everyone does, I don’t think they are using CRISPR any differently than anyone this side of the pacific is.
The verdict said the three defendants had not obtained qualification as doctors, pursued fame and profits, deliberately violated Chinese regulations on scientific research, and crossed an ethical line in both scientific research and medicine, according to Xinhua. It also said they had fabricated ethical review documents.
It’s illegal.
They follow the law?
I doubt any more or less than people here do
That movie is 9/10. The ending is absolutely beautiful.
Spoilers!
I HAVE SPOILED NOTHING.
If you insist:
spoiler
Jude Law is in it
Not seen Gattaca, but a multi-tier, genetically structured society is the basis of Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World, which is well worth a read.
Worth noting, it’s a pretty short book so don’t sleep on it.
Okay, but the moral of the story was that “superior” people weren’t actually superior. They were just racist.
The protagonist outwits and outperforms them all.
In some cases there were absolute superior though. Like the pianist with 12 fingers.
The actual moral of the story was that it’s not worth it. Being a bit better at some random shit like swimming, playing piano or piloting a rocket is not good enough to sacrifice the rest.
Like the pianist with 12 fingers.
Having twelve fingers isn’t what makes you good at playing the piano.
Being a bit better at some random shit like swimming, playing piano or piloting a rocket is not good enough to sacrifice the rest.
There’s an underlying question in the story that amounts to “if you’ve made Earth such a great place, why is everyone trying to leave?”
The plan to colonize Titan is, at its root, a eugenics fantasy.
Having twelve fingers isn’t what makes you good at playing the piano.
The movie literally says that the piece cannot be played without 12 fingers.
The plan to colonize Titan is, at its root, a eugenics fantasy.
the movie doesn’t say anything about “colonizing titan”, in fact the mission doesn’t even state what’s the purpose other than to get to titan which has never been done before - it symbolizes ultimate frontier that in the eyes of eugenicists would require a perfect human to be achieved and yet the guy that ends up outcompeting everyone is a not genetically modified and achieves this through sheer skill and determination.
There’s an underlying question in the story that amounts to “if you’ve made Earth such a great place, why is everyone trying to leave?”
You’re misinterpreting the ending. Vincent always felt rejected by the world for being a natural but ends up feeling bittersweet for leaving as he found Irene and Jerome who proved to him that earth is very much capable of loving him. Not “everyone is trying to leave earth”, just Vincent really and even then he heavily diminishes his desire.
I love Gattaca and really don’t understand your beef with it. It’s a beautiful story but awfully insightful too that aged perfectly even to this day! In fact, I’ll watch it again tonight :)
Seems like a pretty bad execution of the concept, then.
That’s the joke tbh.
Same for H. G. Wells- The Time Machine book in the part where the traveler meets the Morlocks and the Eloi.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Machine
EDIT: Got my authors mixed up, it wasn’t Jules Verne.
H. G. Wells wrote The Time Machine, not Verne.
My bad, dunno how I could confuse my authors
Both are very early science fiction pioneers, I can see how they could get mixed up. 🤷♂️
came to say this is basically the premise of gattaca.
The Beggars Trilogy by Nancy Kress touches on this as well, but is more focused on the issues with superintelligence rather than just gene alteration, although, because people are vain, the preference for things like hair, skin and symmetry also exist in the story’s world. Oh yeah, and the coolest concept from this trilogy is a thing called “sleeplessness”, where people can alter there genes to remove the biological need to sleep, allowing people to be able to be productive for as many hours as they desire.
Great movie, excellent performances
