Ukraine on Wednesday lowered the military conscription age from 27 to 25 in an effort to replenish its depleted ranks after more than two years of war following Russia’s full-scale invasion.
The new mobilization law came into force a day after Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy signed it. Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed it last year.
It was not immediately clear why Zelenskyy took so long to sign the measure into law. He didn’t make any public comment about it, and officials did not say how many new soldiers the country expected to gain or for which units.
Conscription has been a sensitive matter in Ukraine for many months amid a growing shortage of infantry on top of a severe ammunition shortfall that has handed Russia the battlefield initiative. Russia’s own problems with manpower and planning have so far prevented it from taking full advantage of its edge.
Maybe they can draft those brave Americans and Europeans to come fight for them.
There have been volunteers from those places, so this isn’t the dunk you think it is
Wow a few volunteers. Meanwhile tens of thousands of Ukrainian men are forcibly thrown into the meat grinder while people wave on enthusiastically with their flag sending them into their deaths.
Ever been blocked just for being unpleasant and boring?
While taking no sides, I must say this is a personal attack.
If someone is bothering you and you plan on blocking them, just block them and go about your day.
No amount of righteousness is enough to ignore basic politeness, or else all discussions will turn into trash.
Lots of discussions aren’t trash at all! Some of them start that way, and end in an object lesson. Nothing gets wasted round here.
It has to be said I don’t agree with the downvotes here, even if it’s kind of funny. You went to bat for civility, and you’re right that it’s how the world should work.
You’ve very clearly taken sides in this thread.
Yes, but not in this particular discussion
The rest took place later. This was only a call for civility.
Fair enough, it is important to stay civil.
No just for speaking the truth.
When NATO had to attack Serbia to stop the ethnic cleansing, how many soldiers did Ukraine send to help NATO?
185. Iraq, 1600. Couldn’t find good numbers on Afghanistan quickly but it seems to be on the order of 30.
Iraq sticks out, without being aware of the reasoning Ukraine had I’d say it’s to ingratiate themselves with the US, just as Poland did. 1600 people are more moral support than anything else.
There is an ethnic cleansing going on in Palestine right now where is NATO at?
Oh right supplying the bombs to do it.
NATO is a defense treaty organization, not offensive. This isn’t complicated. Member nations can do what they they see fit as needed but only unprovoked attacks on members are the real purview.
A kill ratio of up to 1:10 is a meat grinder, yes, but not on the Ukrainian side.
A 1:2 or 1:3 ratio is very plausible. 1:10 is just consuming the kool aid from our side. Not surprising since we’re doing pretty hot on the propaganda as well:
Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia’s full-scale invasion
I said “up to”. Places like Bakhmut have an overall 1:3 kill ratio, Avdivka is similar. Those rates are already bad enough and Russia has no qualms sending troops into a 1:10 killbox, those kinds of numbers are on the tactical not strategic level.
With China, India, and North Korea all helping Russia, it’s basically getting an extra seven armies per turn at this point.
China isn’t so much helping but stringing along. They sent golf carts, the overall motto is “never interrupt your enemy while they’re making a mistake”. India’s friendship (if it can be called that) with Russia is only valid as long as Russia is still independent of China. Neither would risk actually breaking with the west over Russia, they’re not even up to exchanging a couple of blows. North Korea is a joke, anyway, and btw another reason for China to get pissed at Russia, the Chinese are not amused at the Russians handing NK rocket tech etc.
They’re certainly not but they could have been far lower if Europe and America were actually serious about sending weapons to Ukraine instead of just their old junk.
Russia has ramped up their production and is now producing almost 10 times the amount of artillery shells a year as get delivered to Ukraine. Meanwhile Biden is ignoring Ukraine to send all his weapons to israel.
Biden isn’t ignoring Ukraine, the GOP or better said the MAGA crowd is playing the conflict for political points.
Over here in Europe we understand the message: Trump wasn’t an exception, the US will stay, at best, fickle regarding any of their commitments, the Americans can’t be relied upon as a partner. I say fuck them good riddance.
And, no, stuff like IRIS-T aren’t “old junk” Germany itself doesn’t field those systems they’re that new. Stuff like the Gepard is old but so capable it’s still the best Flak out there. And yes I think we should send Taurus, pretty much everyone but the Chancellor and peaceniks think so. I guess it’s political calculation on his part: As long as there’s something we hold back the peaceniks have a hard time framing him as a war-monger, it’s trading immediate support vs. long-term support.
Also frankly speaking Taurus seems to be overkill when it comes to striking deep into Russia’s rear, Russian refineries aren’t protected by the anti-air installations that the thing is capable of circumventing and even taking down something highly protected like the Kerch bridge, even with bunker busters (which Taurus are) would take a massive barrage practically depleting the whole stock. It’s a lot of concrete.
Indeed but striking the oil refineries is actually effective. In fact it’s so effective that Biden told Ukraine to cut it out because it’s actually effective and they don’t want Ukraine to actually win something.
US urges Ukraine to stop attacking Russian oil refineries, report says
I’m incredibly disappointed in you. I thought you were better than this. You wouldn’t say “maybe they can draft those brave leftists to protect Palestinians”, would you?
Russia and Israel are both trying to conduct genocide and conquer land, with different degrees of success. I expected you to be anti genocide no matter the situation. I’m disappointed to see it’s just “opposite of the US” for you.
I didn’t agree with most of your takes, but I thought you were principled and they at least made me think. Guess I was wrong.
Yes voluntarily. A draft is FORCED. This is not about wanting to defend your own country this is about being forced into the meat grinder.
Zelensky recently replaced his top army general that said they were in a stalemate and now they have a guy nicknamed “the butcher”.
Everyone who disagrees with this Tankie: Remember to vote for Biden so Ukraine and Palestine are both able to survive their respective genocides.
Biden is currently President. What is he going to do in a second term that he couldn’t have done in his first to end this?
It’s been less than half a year.
Being the correct choice requires Biden only to be better than Trump.
The person I was replying to is an obvious liar.
The people of Ukraine and Trans Americans also hang in the balance.
There are other considerations besides genocide to consider as well.
And with regard to the question I asked?
You seem to have interpreted my comment as [generic anti biden message]. But I meant specifically what I asked.
I don’t believe you, but if I did I’d advise you to ask a foreign policy expert.
We’re busy using our tax dollars to equip them and keeping our troops where they won’t start a nuclear war.
You mean giving them enough to stabilize the line, but not enough to push it back into Russia? For fear that would trigger nuclear war?
Boy, you must be fun at parties.
We’re busy yanking our dicks to our lord and savior Donald Jesus Trump.
Best I can do is make my avatar yellow and blue and post “SLAVA UKRAINI” from time to time.
For all the Americans who want to send troops, I think they should sign up for the Ukrainian army. If they believe in the right so much, let them go fight the war.
While I support sending weapons, I do not support sending troops.
I’ve actually considered joining the foreign legion. The commander seems fucking sketchy and not very brilliant strategically, that unnecessary risks his men. It wouldn’t be a terrible idea to actually have nato commanders directing back line logistics and training.
Training is done by nato.
So I’ve had a few beers. The problem is nato is training is combined arms. Ukraine can’t do that. We expect to control the air and nato tactics are designed around that.
Ukraine seems to be following Baltic strategic suggestions. Technically NATO, just not the mainstream doctrine. But it makes sense that e.g. Estonians have thought more about how to fight the Russians on a back foot than American generals.
I’ve met a bunch of Ukrainians online that just want the war done. They don’t care who wins. They’re seeing their family and friends die and they just want it to stop.
People seem to forget that this thing started because two oblasts didn’t want to be part of Ukraine anymore. Russia escalated it for sure, but it still started as a separatist movement inside Ukraine.
Bullshit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People’s_Republic
There’s a luhansk one as well.
Russia backed those separatists. Russia escalated it, but there was a sizable portion of the population that wanted out of Ukraine. I have zero idea how they feel about the 2022 annexation.
As even your Wikipedia article mentions, even though the east of Ukraine hasn’t always been in the same page politically, this separatist movement is fairly new and probably fueled by Russia since at least the 2010s and exploded after the Euromaidan protests .
You can see it by checking the Ukrainian Referendum of Independence of 1991.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum
Only 12-13% in those oblasts voted no, compared to the whopping 42% from Crimea, which is understandable because it was originally Russian territory ceded to the Ukranian SSR by Nikita Khrushchev as a gesture of goodwill (not that it justifies the 2014 annexation it suffered by Russia).
Even though the vote was about leaving the USSR, we can’t separate the Russian question completely from it, and it was an important issue during the referendum.
Those Russian speaking separatists got heavily influenced by Russian disinformation and propaganda for years in preparation of the invasion, and supported by the Russian armed forces, precisely to have this justification. This is like saying Putin got 88% in the election, so clearly that’s the will of the people. Assuming that authoritarian regimes lead by secret service agents play by the rules of democracy is dangerous.
Imo it’s remarkable how successful they are at spreading their twisted narratives, even in western countries.
Is there something valuable in that region? Seems like removing them from Ukraine would be a smart choice to get rid of them. Since Ukraine was prospering better than Russia, give them what they want
Fossil fuel and heavy infrastructure.
Russia is just helping those who want to leave leave yes that’s the ticket. The best way to do this is to try to decapitate the country’s leadership with a full scale invasion that includes devastating its infrastructure affecting millions of civilian lives.
Yes
Not to mention, this is an issue in Palestine where there’s no guarantee that the people displaced will be able to return their homes if they leave. That’s the Egypt defense at least, but there’s plenty of Americans who agree with that notion.
By the same principle, Russia allowing people to leave but preventing them from returning would be atrocious.
I really thought about putting some type of disclaimer about how this was a response I expected.
I regret not putting that down.
The online discourse on this is so black and white it’s ridiculous.
There can be multiple reasons for things. Doesn’t mean that any side is some type of white Knight.
War, with its life and death seriousness, doesn’t leave a lot of room for nuanced arguments. Those are for peacetime. For now it’s simply Russia is the aggressor, Ukraine the defender, and Ukraine represents western democracy in a part of the world that is known for corrupt oligarchs. We back Ukraine not just because it’s right, but sensible. it’s that simple imo.
Russia doesn’t have Oligarchs it has minor nobles being viceroys, all power is by the grace of the Tsar – it’s even the Tsar’s power that they wield, probably unconstitutional for the Russian president to divide and give out his power and authority like that.
Ukraine still has actual oligarchs, though their influence is waning: Basically, when you’re a shady businessman one of the best strategies is to enjoy parliamentary immunity so those businessmen all sought office but they were never a unified block, they are competitors and often hate each other’s guts. The people thus got to be the kingmaker, could choose their favourite oligarch to run the country. Zelensky got electoral push from one of those Oligarchs because the incumbent Oligarch fucked that one over over some oil deals.
List of current oligarchs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarchs?wprov=sfti1#See_also
List of past Viceroyalties, which seemed to come to an end in early 1900s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_viceroyalties_of_the_Russian_Empire?wprov=sfti1#
I did learn that there’s an actual current Tsar in Russia working to restore Imperialist Russia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchess_Maria_Vladimirovna_of_Russia?wprov=sfti1#Role_in_Russia_and_activities
Haha very funny.
But just to make this clear: The “Russian Oligarch” link you sent starts off with people from the 90s – that generation is gone, replaced by people hand-picked by Putin. They did not become filthily rich and then came to dominate politics, it’s the other way around: Trusted by Putin, they got installed in positions of power which comes with the privilege of skimming off money. That’s the exact same system the Tsars had. Putin knew Prigozhin since the 90s, they were old buddies.
Russia could, in principle, have turned towards an actual oligarchy like Ukraine, the oligarchs certainly tried to, see e.g. Khodorkovsky. In Russia the Siloviki didn’t let that happen, every single one of those oligarchs committed some crime you can nail them for – or not, if they stay in their lane, meaning out of politics. In Ukraine, for one reason or the other, that didn’t happen, they were let into parliament where they then could slowly be disempowered by the people, instead of three letter agency cadres. Which is also how power ultimately ended up with the people in Russia and (broadly speaking) the FSB in Russia.
Pretty sure they will care who wins when they get shipped off to Russian labor camps or sent to the front lines for whatever shit putin decides to invade next. I feel for their losses of loved ones but that’s a pretty dumb take.
Polls show that Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to fight Russia off.
You’reYour “bunch of Ukrainians online” was probably Kremlin shills.Could be. There’s lots of shills and bots out there