Sparton

Yeah, these things all make sense, again, with the implied idea that “all religions” use fallacious logic like circular reasoning, which I think we both agree is a common feature but not a rule of religion.

And sure, there are plenty of things that I trust on faith, like my Creator and my Savior, or the concept of sin. For me, the faith is critical for my psyche, but I’m of the world and in the world, so I am called to work good in this world now, which grace and guidance.

I would be careful with the smoking analogy. The only control someone really has in their outcome from smoking is deciding heavily limit or to quit early enough to not have a high risk of health complications of death. Religious expression is the interface between the divine and the worldly. It’s socially controlled and always has been. There are so many things people of faith can do to prevent allowing their expressions and works from causing harm, alienate “others,” and ultimately do things incongruent with their proclaimed beliefs.

I think of it more like democracy: a social phenomenon many feel confident in being “the best,” but also one that can fall victim to abuses that prevent it’s ideal in such a way as to disenfranchise and deliver results many, if not most, are unhappy with, if not harmed from. But I don’t think either of us would call for a monarchy or autocracy in order to “prevent the ills of democracy.” We, collectively, have to be better at making democracy better.

And yeah! It has been fun to discuss with you. I appreciate hearing your perspectives on this and allowing me to better understand your line of reasoning.

And I guess this must be closing in on the root of our disagreement: I don’t see that religion requires uncritical belief.

I don’t know what your litmus test is for “standards of evidence.” Can you elaborate on what good standards of evidence looks like to you and how you know they are good?

Lastly, by agreeing that there is not universality in the backwards-ness and issue of religion, it seems to me you can’t argue for religious thought to have inherit nature to that kind. Rather, there are expressions of it, religiosity, being backwards and bad. The part does not account for the whole.

Christianity is inherently problematic, or all religions are inherently problematic? You’ve made a case for Christianity (and probably Judaism and Islam), but those are just two (very large) religions. I’m taking about, and I feel the op’s essence was, the idea of religion and people being religious. Not just the Christians. Can you also point to the Taoists, the Universalists, the Zoroastrians (just to name a few) and say that their faiths are all inherently problematic?

Firstly, I am assuming that “they” is referring to Christians, which the op did not specify, and my subsequent commentary is interpreted to generalizing to all presentations of religion. While I explicitly pointed to Christianity, that was because I was referencing my personal faith journey.

Secondly, we are in agreement that the Pentateuch, in its literal form, calls for and endorses a society which does not privilege equality for all races, genders, or creeds. I would assume we are also in agreement that the epistles of Paul and Timothy and other early Christian writers have some pretty messed up opinions of who God is and what God wants.

But you yourself drew attention to the agency Christians, and all other faithful people, have. There is choice, and people do choose, to interpret scripture as non-literal. By the virtue of this existence, one cannot simply label all religious expressions as backwards or at issue, as I originally posited.

How do you account for tolerance found within religion and religious communities throughout the world and throughout history, then? How can intolerance be inherent to religion if it is not universally observed?

And for clarity, I’m not trying to no-true-scotsman out religious communities that harbor hatred and shut off diversity and the like. They totally exist and they are a problem. But to suggest religiosity itself is the issue, to me at least, is missing a sound foundation.

Is religiosity the cause of an overwhelming intolerance, or is it, religiosity, the overwhelming citation of the pious bigot?

Ignoring the inherit assumption that religion is de facto an issue or backwards, and ignoring the fallacy that “progress” is co-liniar with the passage of time, logic is not in of itself a perfect humanistic process of thought, rather it has been developed by humans over the millennia.

There is great comfort in the process of growing into and exploring one’s faith. Growing up in a theologically liberal Christian church, I was invited to find ways to meld the kingdom of God and the kingdom of man is such a way that I find purpose and vocation within my life. Religion also offers a place for community among people committed to a mission, be it good or bad. These communities preserve and honor cultural traditions, again, the good and the bad. These are just a few reasons I think people are now, and will remain well into the future, religious.

Sitting on the front porch and watching people and cars drive down the street while drinking a beer

Going to live music in the park on the weekends

Storm/weather watching

Going for a drive to just drive, no real destination.

This is a reposting from post-data loss:

I grew up in southeast Iowa (Davenport) and live there currently. I studied history (American Colonial Frontier era Indigenous Material Culture) and chemistry (physically) at Wartburg College, and went on to get a Master’s degree in museum studies from Western Illinois University. I always have loved history and the way we share stories of the past.

I am currently working as an independent museum consultant in southeast Iowa, wherein I hop around to small and micro museums to advise them on collections care, curation, education, and marketing. Most of these museums have one or two part time staff members or are all volunteer based. I come in to lend (a reasonably priced) hand with whatever may be holding that museum or historic home from being its best.

My master’s thesis was concerned with use of a Post-Human methodology in combination with New Materialism to provide new perspectives on objects housed in a museum collection. I really tried my advisor’s patience at times with this topic. I now use this approach in my research and work every day.

Outside of this, I am an avid head-fi enthusiast, I play the viola in the local symphony, I’m Lutheran, and I am linux and freeBSD tinkerer. I came to Lemmy following the loss of Apollo and have now really committed to federated social media. I look forward to connecting with some of you in due time!

It’s really fulfilling work. There are just so many micro-museums that have never had a professional present to assess where the museum is at and what it can be.

I did some archaeology research for my undergraduate senior thesis, lots of fun stuff! Something I love about museum work is that it is a combination of all the history related fields, science fields (for things like preservation ) and social sciences and education all in one institution. It allows me to wear many hats.

What region/period did you mainly study?

My initial thought was of the same energy: Particle. I’d much rather know where I am than what I am influencing. Way better than waves.

Everyone deserves a second chance, we’re glad you’re here!

Glad to see another Iowan musician: I’m a violist who plays with the Southeast Iowa Symphony.

Welcome!

Happy to see someone else from the Quad Cities! I grew up on the north end of Davenport.

Hi everyone! I’m a lifelong Iowan in my mid-20s. I work in small museums in the southeast part of the state as a consultant and contractor. So many of these small institutions have part-time volunteers and no professionally trained staff, so I offer guidance with collection management, exhibit curation, event planning, and digital marketing. I like to tell history through material culture and through a philosophy called post-humanism, which looks at the world around us in terms beyond the human perspective.

Outside of that, I am really into head-fi and am mostly listening to music in my free time. Additionally, I like to tinker with Arch Linux and FreeBSD installs and have been teaching myself how to code in Haskell. I’m still rather new to federated social media, but have really been enjoying my transition thus far.