I just want them to make a true flagship phone. I personally wouldn’t mind paying extra for a more ethical phone, if it had all the bells and whistles and wasn’t half obsolete straight out of the box.
FP would be a good choice for Graphene.
Doesn’t this thing just run android and Google App Store? What a waste of decent hardware.
You can purchase the /e/os version. But it is more expensive
E/os is just android.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki//e/_(operating_system)
I do see that Ubuntu touch is an option though.
It’s shameful that most phones run one of two operating systems. There’s not enough competition. I’m still pissed about WebOS and Windows Phone being abandoned. I am hopeful though that web-based apps might make it possible for another OS to enter the market successfully at some point.
Oh, I apologize. I misunderstood your main concern, I though it’s about Google Play instead of Android.
Yes, the only choice for most mobile phones are either Android or iOS. Things like Pinephone and FydeTab Duo exists, but so rare.
I love the idea but the price is too high for the chip given that this is designed to be a lengevity phone. A chip like the 7s Gen 3 would make the phone sluggish after a couple of years with how unoptimised todays apps are.
The Gorilla Glass 7i and IP55 water resistance are also concerning given that budget Samsung, Xiaomi, etc phones beat this.
However having components of the phone being easily replacable is a great thing.
Are you aware why it is called “Fair Phone”?
Maybe look into that, before complaining about the price, it makes you look stupid.
I would totally buy one of these if they were sold in the US. Sadly, last time I checked the newest phone wasn’t sold here. So I doubt this one will be.
you can get them in the US.
I just want them to be smaller.
It’s 6.3" because of the lack of top/bottom bezels. The phone itself is not much bigger than a Galaxy S7.
I could go for like <5 in to be honest.
If they are all about swappable parts, and being able to upgrade your phone how you want … Shouldn’t this just be a module upgrade… Of the main part? Maybe I don’t understand it … At the very least the old parts should work with the new system right? Unless something major has changed.
Exactly. Framework does it correctly; fairphone does not.
Not putting in a 3.5mm jack says enough. They sell Bluetooth earbuds I wouldn’t call that “fair”. It leads to more landfill. Phones with 3.5mm jacks also have BT, and don’t start about USBC singles, that’s more to buy and more landfill when they inevitable break.
I hear you! Though I don’t mind the lack of a 3.5 mm jack¹, it is still an anti-feature, and I fully agree that the TWS style of in-ears are antithetical to the repairability ethos. It’s especially bad when they sell one themselves.
Until Linux phones reliably support 5G communications with major carriers (this is a kernel driver issue for modems), I’m going to run with my current phone until it crumbles… Or at least until someone comes out with an actual modular phone where the mainboard can just be swapped as with desktops and Framework laptops.
¹I use a very high quality “dongle” DAC (Moonriver 2) and it gives me a cleaner, lower impedance, higher power output than any phone’s on-board audio can. If I’m going to be using wired headphones, might as well go all the way.
I wish we could get this in Canada
Why does The Fairphone (Gen. 6) not have an audio jack?
After some of the criticism that we received about removing the headphone jack from Fairphone 4, we did consider bringing it back for The Fairphone (Gen. 6). However, we realized it would be at the expense of increasing the phone’s dimensions. We also looked into the consumer data and Fairphone 4’s weight and thickness were more of an issue than the lack of a minijack, so we decided to keep the same approach, although it was a difficult decision. We didn’t want to invest in OLED technology for the display and then not have improved the phone’s dimensions and weight. But just like with Fairphone 4 and Fairphone 5, we will still offer an adapter, which has had overall positive user reviews.
“We heard the criticism but decided that no, you would still need an adapter to use headphones, plus a USB-C hub to be able to charge the damn thing while listening to music or watching videos”
Funny how that’s the same excuses that we get for modern laptops terrible design. “We HAVE to make it thinner so there’s no space! You wouldn’t want a laptop that’s not complete shit if it meant it’d also be less thin and breakable, now would you?”
Let me expand, as I usually deal with surveys and population feedback. There’s loud feedback, and there’s statistically significant feedback.
People who want a headphone jack are very loud. They will interject this issue into every feedback opportunity given. They will mention it on the comment sections, forums, q&a sessions, answer their surveys accordingly, etc. That’s all fine and their prerogative.
However, when you look at the statistics. They are unfortunately a very tiny minority of the entire population. They are not statistically significant for decision making. They don’t have the volume to move sales significantly. This sucks, of course, and I personally wouldn’t mind the return of headphone jacks, smaller phones and bigger batteries as a fair trade for thicker phones.
But unfortunately, the vast majority of the market is pre-occupied with other things. The phone screen is too small, the phone weights too much, the phone is too thick, I want to bring my phone to the pool without fear of it breaking, etc. They are not as passionate about it, not like the headphone people are, but they far outnumber them in several orders of magnitude. In the end, if the product doesn’t sell, it won’t matter how much it was worth to a single passionate person. It will sink the company if it doesn’t have mass appeal. Making phones is already an extremely expensive endeavor.
You can get good Bluetooth earbuds for under $50 and a USB-C to AUX dongle for under $15.
The average person is fine with Bluetooth earbuds or an adapter, and audiophiles would not find the inbuilt DAC/amp on a phone to be adequate.
how do you charge the phone with a DAC plugged in?
If we revisit the “loud” vs “statistically significant” paradigm, while it is a shame you will not be able to charge the phone with a dac in without buying a specific cable, how often does the average person do so?
People who want a headphone jack […] are unfortunately a very tiny minority of the entire population.
People interested in paying more for fair trade materials and repairable phones are also a very tiny minority of the entire population.
Of course I don’t have any statistic, but I would guess that the proportion of people wanting a Jack is significantly higher in the group of people interested in buying Fairphone that on the general population.In my particular case, I’m still using my Fairphone 3, and I’m not buying a Fairphone again unless it has a Jack.
I don’t have any statistic, but I would guess that the proportion of people wanting a Jack is significantly higher in the group of people interested in buying Fairphone that on the general population.
Fairphone literally does have that statistic. They spent effort to gather that info in order to inform their business decisions. And they report:
We also looked into the consumer data and Fairphone 4’s weight and thickness were more of an issue than the lack of a minijack
Have a look at their impact report. They themselves claim that they don’t spend more than €5 per phone on fair trade or environmental stuff.
You are only paying more for that phone because they are a tiny boutique manufacturer who has to outsource everything. The fair/eco stuff is just fair- and greenwashing.
If you buy a phone because you want to look fair/eco, buy a Fairphone. If you actually really care for fair/eco, get an used phone and donate some money to the correct NGOs or charities.
Like I’ve said before- their market is small enough they should be trying to get everyone they can to buy it.
Just out of interest, because I too love the jack, then what are you buying in the future?
Motorola or whatever, depends what’s available within budget at the time I need the phone.
What statistics? People buying thin phones over thicker phones doesn’t mean much when that’s almost all that’s being sold nowadays and every phone is trying to be as thin as possible. It seemed to me that 90% of what we’re told people want is actually just what companies want to push on us because it’s cheaper and more profitable.
All the people I know who are average users couldn’t care less about how thin the phone is, two mm more or less doesn’t make any difference. They care about screen size and being able to use it without too much hassle. If they get a phone without an audio jack half of them will just assume that they can’t plug earphones at all. And they are not the ones who will complain. But then, Fairphone isn’t marketed towards average users, so maybe their users have different priorities? Idk
Very strange how mine can somehow fit a 7000mAh battery, dual SIM + SD card slot and a regular jack. Hmm…
Is it repairable only with a screwdriver and parts you can buy from the manufacturer?
That’s a definite advantage of the Fairphone.
I guess, I will find out how mine fares when the need arises. Hasn’t happened in 4.5 years yet.
Are you a Republican? Because that really sounds like “mine works, so fuck everyone else”
Are you a murican? Cuz you really sound like USA is your whole world.
Okay, I’m going to ask… why don’t you use wireless?
Edit: some results are in, and the only reasonable answer is better audio quality, although that’s probably no longer true. The rest are fairly weak reasons.
Lol’d at the 10m extension cord though, thanks for that one.
Latency issue, in some use cases it’s not acceptable to have 0.1~0.3 sec lag, like racing games or rhythm games.
(Yeah, I know there are some wireless protocols to make latency shorter, but it might cost a lot to buy a supported headphone, and it’s still useless if the phone doesn’t have proper protocol supports.)
wireless headphones run out of battery, and most seem to have atrocious build quality and battery life.
The battery? Mine last at least 8 hours and charge in two.
Battery degradation. Wired earphones/headphones can be BIFL if treated properly. A typical wireless device will see battery degradation within a handful of years, and I have yet to see a decent TWS solution with replaceable batteries.
1.Wired headphones deliver better audio quality 2.Wired headphones are harder to lose 3.Wired headphones don’t need batteries, so: a)less e-waste b)no need to check if they are charged 4.Wired headphones are more secure, connection cannot be intercepted and phishing attacks with BT are not possible 5.While wired headphones are plugged, no one can take your phone without you noticing
- They are expensive. You can get wired earphones for 2 euros that actually work and are reasonably durable. It’s not a great loss if they fall in a puddle or if I step on them.
- They are a lot more failure prone. Half of those I tried didn’t work or only half worked, and those that did work didn’t last very long.
- They have shitty range. I can use a 10 meters extension cord with wired earphones if I want to.
- They require charging. And it’s a law of physics that everything that requires charging always run out at the most inconvenient time.
- Also THEY ALWAYS GET LOST. Wireless earphones, mouse, controllers… it doesn’t matter, if it’s not attached with a cable they’ll just disappear.
dang, I just bought FP5.
It’s not a single bit worse than before the announcement.
thanks for your sacrifice
Think of it as a generous donation 😉
I dont understand Fairphone, flashy hardware with poor software security and awful sustainability (they stop selling parts quickly).
No they don’t they still sell parts for the Fairphone 2 that’s 10 years old.
Use Calyx OS and re-lock the bootloader.
they stop selling parts quickly
The new EU regulations should force them to keep parts available.
If they were serious about security they would partner with the GraphineOS team
No earphone jack again. That’s a bit sad. Even though I mainly use BLT earbuds, I still sometimes wish I could use my wired headphones. It’s just a small inconvenience
Not having a headphone jack is just a slap in the face from a company whose whole image is supposed to be longevity and eco-friendly.
I had a phone without before, that one came with a simple cheap passive adapter for USB-C to 3.5mm headset. You lose out on using headphones while charging, but other than that I was never really inconvenienced…
After having a phone without a 3.5mm port or a microSD card slot, the top 2 features I want on a phone are a 3.5mm port and a microSD card slot.
Shame Sony discontinued their Xperia 5 series, even if they were also excessively priced.
aw man, this is the first i’m hearing about discontinuation. apparently it’s because people want larger phones?!
i have a 5 IV and it is by far the largest phone i’ve ever owned… i wish it was like an inch smaller. but it was the only model i could find that doesn’t have a non-rectangular screen. these bloody camera cutouts are everywhere and i never even use the front camera.
Yep… everyone wants phablets. Apparently.
I don’t mind the cutouts (if done right), they just sit in the notification bar, so they never obscure anything anyway. That’s a place Sony could have shaved off the extra height imo, the top and bottom bezels are pretty unnecessary.
We are slowly moving to under-screen cameras now though.
i mean the bezels together are less than 1cm. and the notch takes space from notifications, with two sim cards and a vpn active that shit overflows instantly anyway.
Fair, I suppose it depends on how the software handles it too. Personally I never let notifications stack up and the VPN for me is on the other side. I’d personally rather have the shorter phone and a cutout.
vpn is on the right, yeah. but this is with just one sim:
with two i get another signal strength and wifi calling symbol. it’s already collapsing them when not on the quick setting screen, which is very frustrating.
We are slowly moving to under-screen cameras now though.
Nothing better than a selfie from a low angle, right?
i think they mean “under” as in “behind”.
lol, that’s very possible
The Sony form factor is the best on the market IMO. You can hold it in you hand and get more screen in the height.
agree, i just wish they kept a model like the Z* Compact around.
I disagree about this being a good solution. USB-C is not meant to take the strain of being used as an audio port when being used in the go so there is risk of damaging the port while a headphone jack is more stable and allows the plug to rotate. Plus I don’t want to have a dingle I can forget when in a rush.
They should make cases with the adapter built in, the way they used to (still do?) for external battery packs.
You also have to remember to have that adapter with you
An issue shared with the headphones themselves
I just leave the adapter plugged into the headphones. Then there’s nothing extra to manage.
I have like a dozen pairs of headphones
The adapters are dirt cheap, buy doezen of them
No thank you.
I have a tablet that came with a C to 3.5 adapter and it worked well enough for a bit but soon enough it was only intermittently allowing the headphone connection to work, with a message about the port being dirty or something. Yet I could go right from unplugging that and putting the charger in and it worked fine.
There’s just no substitute for a dedicated port, especially when it barely takes up any room
You can find adapters that can charge while still having a 3.5mm back
fast charging / USB-PD may not work, and 3.5mm media controls may not pass through properly
I use one of those daily and god they’re all terrible. They’re huge and they all break really easily. My phone is fucking huge, just give me a built in headphone jack!
It’s really a small inconvenience, but using an adapter would mean I’d be prone to misplace it when I use my headphones on anything else, so it hardly makes anything better
The reason for not using a headphone jack is making it simpler for the manufacturer, one less connector to handle which also limits how slim a phone can be.
I’m not saying this is good for the consumer, but there are reasons for integrating the functionality into the USB-C port.
one less connector to handle which also limits how slim a phone can be.
The headphone jack is 3.5mm. iPhones are ~7.5mm thick, more than double. The smallest phone available on the market is 4.2mm.
These points were all disproved long ago. The jack is a the same thickness as the display.
The reason is because BT headphones have a much higher margin, and need to be replaced every few years because of the battery (if not already replaced because they were lost or damaged).
It’s just a dumb cash grab.
For $700 I’m not interested in compromising my own convenience for theirs.
Fair, though the fact doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
If you want easily replaceable parts and a system that can unlock the bootloader for example, your argument can be made for 99% of phones on the market. The more requirements you add, the smaller the scope gets until there are no devices left to choose from.
It’s not hard to manufacture a headphone jack. We’ve been doing it since the 80s. Probably costs them a penny BOM.
I don’t think his point was the jack itself but the device around the jack. Physically and electronically.
That’s what I’m also talking about.
“Modularity” but still no headphone jack, couldn’t I just have a backplate with a big bump on it to accommodate a 3.5mm jack?
Big? The headphone jack is not large enough to protrude from a cell phone chassis. Any company telling you they can’t fit it is just lying to sell you BT headphones.
What about the internal connectors of the headphone jack?
What about em?
I’m assuming they are removing the headphone jack cause the internal components take up too much space. I can’t imagine these companies removing the jacks cause they cost too much money.
I never use wired headphones even though I have a jack in my phone. But I have never bought a phone without a jack and probably never will.
Ipersonally think it’s user hostile to remove the jack and also goes directly agains the green profile Fairphone wants to have.
I was just hoping a phone like fairphone would give me the option to buy a small module or something to let me do it.
Yes, yes there’s adapters … yes, yes, you don’t need to use it … I understand. I just want it.
You’d ultimately be sacrificing battery size for that Aux jack you hardly use. For most that’s not worth it
I mean … you don’t have to tell me that my opinion isn’t popular, it’s demonstrable. My opinion is statistically insignificant.
There’s a plethora of other things I’d give up like have a slighter bigger phone or a worse camera or wireless charging… I’d also trade those for an SD card slot but no one agrees with me and it’s just something I need to live with.
You have these usb-c to mini jack adapters. They are like 5 to 10eu. They are small enough to keep them attached to your jack headphone. It works perfectly for me.
I think it is better to view the usb-c plug as ‘one protocol to rule them all’. If you do so, it makes quite some sense.
Every adapter I had was broken after a year or less. I imagine if you keep them attached to your phone, they’ll break even faster. Do these adapters exist with a 90° angle which might help preventing broken cables?
Not really in the spirit of reducing waste.
I’ve never had one of those actually work…
The sound quality on them blows no matter which you get.
Probably not a popular thing to say on here, but I think you’ve lost the battle for the earphone jack. It probably just requires way too much real estate to be practical on a modern day cell phone.
Exactly this, that’s a lot of space taken up to connect what 4 analog wires?
That’s insanity when a AUX to Usb-C converter does the job
Honestly, I don’t really get the people who complain about the lack of 3.5mm jack on a smartphone. If you’re looking for quality you’re more likely to get better quality out quality USB-C headphones than quality 3.5mm headphones due to the USB-C headphones picking up less noise and having its own DAC (which is probably better than the phone DAC that 3.5mm would use).
EDIT: I would’ve been surprised if this take wasn’t controversial. But I guess it’s a good example how the fediverse is not a leftist echo chamber. You have a loud minority complaining about not being able to use a century old technology that the vast majority in the mobile space has moved away from and any compromise on what you want is unacceptable. That’s about as conservative as you can get.
What about the simplicity?
I don’t follow? If you mean simplicity in terms of ease of use you might as well use BT headphones as you don’t have to worry about any wire management. Ease of use is the main reason BT headphones are the go to for most people. No carefully packing the wires so it won’t break, no accidental wiring mess or anything wire related. You just turn them on (which for most in-ear ones just means taking them out of the case), stick them to your ear and you’re good to go.
If you meant anything else by simplicity you need to expand that idea.
I never have to charge my wired headphones.
Nor do I have to buy new batteries or new headphones when they die.
Fair enough, feel free to buy USB-C headphones then.
Edit: Time for the real reply.
I never have to charge my wired headphone.
But you still have to charge your phone. When I charge my phone I also charge my headphones. Most wireless headphones notify you in advance when they’re running low, in my experience enough in advance to not run out before charging again. And finally, charging even once a day is still less overhead than having to manage wires every single time you use the headphones.
Nor do I have to buy new batteries or new headphones when they die
Yeah, you only buy new headphones when the wire gets damaged because that one time you didn’t take good enough care of the wire. I personally had to buy a new set of headphones every year because I’m bad with wires. I’d either store them poorly because I was in a hurry or they’d get stuck on something and get yanked. My first BT headphones lasted me 5 years before starting to have noticeable battery issues and then I still used them for another 3 years before the battery was so dead it wouldn’t live my daily commute.
overall my response boils down to “just use wired then” because the arguments are silly personal preference arguments and the wider consumer market has already decided that wireless is better. But if you want wired nothing is stopping you from getting USB-C wired headphones.
For the amount of space a earphone jack takes it really doesn’t make sense for them to include it, when you can just use a cheap adaptor cable
just make the phone larger and fill the empty space with battery
“For the amount of space it takes to include a second speaker or second camera it doesn’t really make sense when you can just plug in an external one”
You sound like an idiot.
I can buy a phone from HMD that’s more repairable, more modular, and has sustainable features.
Fairphone has been a busted flush since they ditched the headphone jack. It’s just the most obvious sign amongst many they started making landfill phones.
Resorting to insults really?
3.5mm Aux takes up a shit load of space to connect 4 analog wires. If a phone has Aux it should at the very least be 2.5mm.
It makes no sense to me why you can’t just use an adapter.
More battery > Redundant analog cable most people don’t use anyway.
I might be a idiot as you say, but the people at Fairphone don’t seem to be because they ditched AUX as they should have
Having yet another thing to keep charged
a usb port is far easier to break
I hate earbuds, I want my same old over the ear $15 sony headphones that last for yearsBT is just another thing to fuss with for no apparent benefit, I have an assortment of BT crap that won’t connect consistently.
Whatever convenience BT might offer is negated by the time wasted learning the intricacies of the ever changing APPs [software]
Interesting that they seem to be using a consumer grade Snapdragon chip this time, typically they used weird chips ment for industry applications if I’m not mistaken. Wonder what sparked the change, did Qualcomm start supporting their chips for longer?
Looks like it.
Starting with Android smartphones running on the Snapdragon 8 Elite Mobile Platform, Qualcomm Technologies now offers device manufacturers the ability to provide support for up to eight consecutive years of Android software and security updates. Smartphones launching on new Snapdragon 8 and 7-series mobile platforms will also be eligible to receive this extended support.
Probably yes.
And probably due to EU mandating new phones to be supported for longer.
https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en
They only used a weird chip for one generation (the last generation; 5)
There’s a deGoogled version too!!
I would prefer GrapheneOS (If I can live with the irony of getting a Pixel phone just to deGoogle it…). Sandboxing there is way better. But you lose the Repairability… Gotta check and compare the new EU metrics too.
They are just two different devices.
Is it really de-googled if it still runs Android?
I not only want a degoogled version but also a secure one. Sadly developing a secure android is rather hard. The Graphene team does it pretty well. Others try it too, but sadly they are not close.
Degoogled version is €50 more, for whatever reason
Because the built in software is usually there because the manufacturer is receiving money from the software company. That’s why consumer devices are always bloated with garbage.
the reason: support for developers. You can install it yourself to save that amount.
People don’t want to pay for privacy. That’s the real problem with end users. Imagine if more people did so. What a world we could have. Nah. Let’s be cheap AF!
Locking privacy behind a paywall? Sounds like a nightmare.
That’s the real problem with end users.
The real problem with end users is that they buy according to whatever needs corpos inject via advertising.
I bet PostmarketOS will release for it
Why do you think so? We still don’t have proper support for the Fairphone 4 on pmOS, why’d the 6 be any better?
Because as you said it is available in some capacity already. Plus people complain about the slow speed of the 4 so maybe people will want to develop quicker for the 6. I could be totally wrong but I’m hopeful
GraphineOS is more secure
We know GrapheneOS only makes their OS on Pixel phones or whatever their own device will be so it’s moot
Thats because pixels fit the rigid standards, if Fairphone met them they would make a version for them
That would be great but that’s just not the way it is unfortunately
Did some digging, but it doesn’t appear the band compatibility with US carriers is improved at all. Am I wrong here?
Would that be a problem when travelling to the… oh, right, we’re not doing that anymore… would this be a problem for Europeans travelling to Canada?
why you gotta be so rude about it? like we’re forced to live here, your bragging doesn’t help anyone
From their own site it would seem they don’t. There is a “US” version but you can’t buy a Fairphone from the website directly.
Rofl if they dump them on ebay as new from a third party US shipper.
https://m.gsmarena.com/fairphone_6-13955.php
There is some band overlap, but I am no expert.
I posted this elsewhere but the tech specs for the Fairphone 6 say the following:
USB-C 2.0 (OTG capable) can be used to connect USB Sticks/SD-Cards/Audio Amplifier/Network-adapters directly
I was really looking forward to use this with a pair of display glasses, like the XREAL One Pro, but this seems like the Fairphone 6 might not support display output? That’s sad. Especially since the Fairphone 5 had this in their tech specs:
USB-C 3.0 (OTG capable) can be used to connect USB Sticks/SD-Cards/display (also Android™ desktop mode)/Camera/Audio Amplifier/Network-adapters directly
But maybe it was not used enough?
