- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.world
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This is just a toxic gender wars meme. Go outside, touch some grass, meet someone nice and move on with life. Memes like this come from and perpetuate the loneliness epidemic.
Couldn’t agree more, matey :)
Accurately observing that the “male loneliness epidemic” is self-inflicted bullshit isn’t “toxic gender wars” except if you are a right wing traitor lunatic.
Edit: if you genuinely believe there is a male loneliness epidemic that is not self-inflicted, you deserve a whole lot worse than prison.
Wow yikes. You sound like fun at parties. Go find someone to care about.
For the record, I think there is a loneliness epidemic for both genders.
People who say “you must be fun at parties” deserve a whole lot worse than prison.
> capitalism
> self-inflictedSure, bud.
Lmao is a worthless traitor dumbfuck trying to pretend that capitalism is the root cause of “male loneliness”? That’s some bottom of the barrel thinking even for incels. Reminds me of the braincel shitbag who said women should be redistributed via Marxism. Shore bud indeed, traitor.
Alienation. Exploitation. Heard of it?
Capitalism has bereft men even of the patriarchal provider role as there’s no fucking time in the day to earn both rent and have any type of social interaction, much less time to reflect on your approach to life. Your position as a gear churning out profit for the bosses has been meticulously designed and drilled into you while you were a kid, blind obedience instilled by teachers and BS “zero tolerance punish the victim” rules. There is no use for you aside from that assigned role, happiness, connection, community, work//life balance? Don’t make a profit. Get out of here with that commie nonsense we have quarterly figures to hit.
Or, maybe, yes, you do have a point: I should have said late-stage capitalism. The internal contradictions are actively eroding it by now.
That’s not at all what people mean at all. Men are not more alienated than any other gender by capitalist lunacy. This “male loneliness epidemic” is a euphemism for late stage male supremacy.
You’re right after that comes the patriarchal, or just gendered, double-whammy: Women culturally do have more of a support network, even just in the “friends hanging out” way, as the male “do things together, chop wood, go fishing” is regarded as work, not leisure, and thus co-opted by capitalism: “What do you need to chop food and fish for, go buy fuel and food are you poor or something”. Thus all the productive time men have is spent in a hierarchical worker-boss environment, never “pals doing stuff”, cue loss of connection, alienation from broader society, loneliness. Going bowling? Time not spent hustling, you’re a loser. That’s your mind on patriarchal capitalism.
Thus, even if the starting conditions inflicted by capitalism are, for the sake of argument, completely even, it still hits men harder when it comes to loneliness. Women are more affected in other ways. This isn’t an olympics, it’s analysis of the material conditions we live under.
Boys are taught to ignore emotions (“are you crying? Man up!”)
But emotions is what connects humans (and animals for that matter) and can’t really be ignored anyway
Join the two… and you get loneliness, frustration, rage.
We should start a conversation on emotional education (not only for boys but especially for boys)
Because nobody wants men to be emotional. When I started opening up is when my marriage started falling apart lol
If opening up is what caused the marriage to fall apart, it was built on a broken foundation and was doomed from the start. You’re only finding out now because emotional unavailability hides that sort of thing.
Yeah happens even before marriage.
Yeah I ain’t ever showing emotions again except to a paid professional lmao.
Most women want someone very emotionally stable
Lol maybe talk to nicer women?
It’s not a “niceness” thing it’s instinctual
I just want to butt in that while the meme is stupid, most women are not awful either.
No of course they aren’t. Who said they are?
I’m saying women are put off my emotional instability aka “showing your feelings”
That’s so fucking silly
Why? Women want stability and protection usually
Yeah as I said… emotional education should not be only for boys.
Sorry mate (or congratulation… depending from the context 🙂)
I think it’s in our nature.
I’ve seen no evidence that these kinds of traits are inherently biological.
Regardless of the fact that we have significant evidence that these more “new” forms of masculinity that incorporate less domineering and aggressive mannerisms are beneficial to men, I simply haven’t seen any evidence that these traits are biological.
In the same way that when you don’t socialize a child to prefer certain clothes or toys, (or stigmatize against them) they generally just go with what they prefer in the moment along lines that don’t match the gender binary, from what I’ve seen, the same is generally true for behaviors. We’re heavily influenced by our cultures and by extension, our upbringing, to a degree that explains why these mannerisms are commonly expressed along gendered lines.
Having kids changed my view. Originally I believed nature influenced our gender roles. Since having kids I have seen in my kids and others that there are clear differences in how both boys and girls interact with the world and both are pretty incredible to watch. I think maybe the idea that being more stoic and less emotional is ok.
Saying all that, there are definitely cultural influences that can take these inherent traits to toxic levels.
I’d like to see studies showing when kids are left to their own that they will trend towards non traditional gender based toys. My gut is believing that this may not need proof that girls and boys do not experience emotions with similar intensity.
One thing I think is a clear difference is attention to details between men and women. What I worry is that if we start thinking men and women are more similar than they are we could run into problems when average people wrongly assume the other experiences things they do.
they generally just go with what they prefer in the moment along lines that don’t match the gender binary
Nope. Lego did a large behavioural study on this because this was their assumption, they thought they were doing completely gender-neutral stuff, but even controlling for parents’s biases their stuff wasn’t gender-neutral when it came to actually be interesting to kids. I’m talking about stuff like the city series, here: A street, bunch of houses, bunch of minifigs. Figures that the girls by and large where looking at the inside of the buildings, finding them empty, and lost interest while boys where seeing the streets, found ample of detail and also a car to drive around, and created stories. There are, of course, as always exceptions to the binary but the overall trend was undeniable.
That (and the insistence of US stores on not having gender-neutral isles and putting Lego in the boy’s section) made them create the Friends series: Detailed house interiors, larger, more detailed minifigs. The pink is for the stores and parents, the interiors for the girls, the build-what-you-want flexibility for the humans.
Generally speaking, I think that difference feminism has been discarded prematurely. Sure, none of the normative BS that many of its proponents espoused should ever see the light of day, but denying difference is harmful in its own way, and the reason is the inevitability of essentialising: If you say “there is no difference at all between men and women” you’re bound to essentialise everyone towards your own gender. And it’s way better to be essentialised as an apple when you’re an apple than it is to be essentialised as a pear.
Do you realise that kids before puberty don’t have much difference from biological point of view. Sexual organs are not developed or fully developed and no hormones to speak of.
The story of Lego you said… cool you can control parents behaviour… what about peer pressure? Or the idea was to control the parents of a whole town (including Cartoons and TV shows)?
Boys develop coarse motor skills first, then fine motor skills, for girls it’s the other way around. Which also means that girls are quite good at sitting still in primary school, boys, without getting tired out in recess, very much aren’t. Cue “behavioural issues”.
Lego did control for everything that could be controlled. They’re the OG “our toys are for everyone” company. They thought that their stuff was gender neutral, that stores and parents, society, were the problem, but had to admit that, no, kids actually do have, statistically speaking, different play preferences. Their female set designers didn’t catch it because they were not kids, any more.
And “no hormones to speak of” MF if there were no hormones involved male karyotypes would develop female.
Lego did a large behavioural study on this because this was their assumption, they thought they were doing completely gender-neutral stuff, but even controlling for parents’s biases their stuff wasn’t gender-neutral when it came to actually be interesting to kids.
Interesting. I can’t seem to find anything on this study, but maybe that’s just my search engine not providing very relevant results.
What is a relevant result is the study from just a few years ago that Lego also commissioned, which they’re using to justify making their product lines more gender neutral, after finding that:
“girls today feel increasingly confident to engage in all types of play and creative activities, but remain held back by society’s ingrained gender stereotypes” and that “Girls […] are more open towards different types of creative play compared to what their parents and society typically encourage.”
And they found a significant effect from parents pushing their kids into certain interests and hobbies influencing the behaviors of children:
Our insights further indicate that girls are typically encouraged into activities that are more cognitive, artistic and related to performance compared to boys who are more likely to be pushed into physical and STEM-like activities (digital, science, building, tools). Parents from this study are almost five times as likely to encourage girls over boys to engage in dance (81% vs. 19%) and dress-up (83% vs. 17%) activities, and over three times as likely to do the same for cooking/baking (80% vs. 20%). Adversely, they are almost four times as likely to encourage boys over girls to engage in program games (80% vs. 20%) and sports (76% vs. 24%) and over twice as likely to do the same when it comes to coding toys (71% vs. 29%)
And they even showed that kids felt pressured not to engage in cross-gendered play, even when they wanted to:
71% of boys vs. 42% of girls say they worry about being made fun of if they play with a toy typically associated for the other gender.
Now, a quick note on your other point.
If you say “there is no difference at all between men and women” you’re bound to essentialise everyone towards your own gender.
I don’t believe there is no difference at all between men and women. I simply believe that a lot of the things we say are inherent differences are actually not as inherent as people tend to believe.
For example, I’ve seen no evidence that women are inherently more kind/caring/empathetic than men in any biological way, only that society socializes them to be so, and thus we see that trend perpetuated over time. Yet if you ask most people, they’ll assume there’s something biological that makes women more like that emotionally.
I don’t believe there is no difference at all between men and women. I simply believe that a lot of the things we say are inherent differences are actually not as inherent as people tend to believe.
Depending on who you mean with “we” I definitely agree.
For example, I’ve seen no evidence that women are inherently more kind/caring/empathetic than men in any biological way, only that society socializes them to be so,
…and fails at doing so, if I may add. Male-pattern aggression is simply more obvious because it’s in your face physical while female-pattern is psychological, always ensuring plausible deniability.
Yet if you ask most people, they’ll assume there’s something biological that makes women more like that emotionally.
Women favour low-risk engagement, passive aggressiveness over overt aggressiveness. Thus you see emotional manipulation used way more often, one approach being self-victim-framing, and for that the narrative of “oh women are so delicate and emotional they have to be protected no matter what they do” fits the bill. Female viciousness is beautiful but I very much prefer it in the “never start a fight, but always finish it” version. Relevant symphonic metal. Also if you’re trying it with me you’re getting tickled into submission.
More sociological insights from the keen minds who teach us you need a small penis to like sports cars.
I think that’s the definition of a straw man. Anyone correct me if I’m wrong.
A better example for a straw man argument would be OPs picture, as it essentially proclaims “all lonely males are just shit people and it’s their fault!”.
lets be honest, people who need a large gender affirming car are fun to laugh at.
Not as laughable as the assumption that “needing a large gender affirming car” was the actual reason someone bought a car, without knowing anything about them except that they’re male. Maybe that proves psychic powers are real too!
need a large gender affirming car
???
This is a projection of your own brainrot sexism, nothing more.
Don’t try to make it sound like you ever mocked a woman for having a large car, either, you’re not fooling anyone with “people”, lol.
oh no, I offended a conservative, the most easily offended demographic.
why don’t you go listen to some podcasts and cry about it
You said something stupid, and it was identified as such. That’s not being offended.
Though the fact that you had to assume several things about me personally to rationalize the way you behave, as your ego is apparently just too fragile to conceive of the possibility that YTA, says a lot, and makes me wonder if you’re available in IMAX.
What?
Dude I’m lonely because I’m a hypersexual libido chameleon with a long term partner who has a pandas sex drive.
If you like football and your best friend doesn’t like football, what do you do? You beg your best friend to play football… but if they really don’t like football or it is just a “once in a while thing” what you do? Probably find another friend or group of friends that like football. Your best friend likely stays your best friend but now you are happy, your best friend is not annoyed by you asking playing football and you have new friends
Of course you don’t hide or lie to your best friend on what you do and when… otherwise they would be (rightfully) upset but if you share and they are mad that you want to have new friends it’s on them to be unreasonable.
Well here Ethical non monogamy in a nutshell in a context where it is socially acceptable 🤷♂️
Are these the same guys that think that eating pussy makes you gay?
It’s no fucking wonder they’re lonely.
Have they tried not being assholes?
Anyone who says that has never been offered pussy, at least not twice. I ate pussy before I fucked pussy, although it happenned in short succession
I have always found that being good at it is a very good way to be invited back. It’s the least gay thing that you can do.
Sopranos confirmed that…never made sense…
Oh man, my eyes are hurting 🫣 with so much toxic ignorance present in this dumb meme!!
This meme is pathetic and offensive.
Offensive to who?
People who are not misandrists?
Oh cool, I was wondering out loud with a coworker the other day whether or not there is a word for that. Thanks for the education 😄
Every lonely man who doesn’t fit the played out internet stereotype of an incel. You likely see several of them a day.
To say that being an asshole makes you lonely doesn’t mean that all lonely men are assholes.
I feel like that is not what op said
Memes is now shitting on genders ? Y’all fuckers don’t know shit about empathy, and about memes either.
This is missing the point it’s embarrassing how stupidly wrong and antagonising it
And then you will wonder why young men are misogynistic I guess. The answer is that you’re a fucking antagonising moron.
There are literally people in this thread claiming misandry cannot exist. People are pretending hating and abusing men is totally okay, and then getting surprised when some of those men start to resent them for it. To say nothing of the fact that the loneliness epidemic has been scientifically measured and is effecting both men AND women.
It is simple ragebait to farm engagement. It absolutely sucks that so many just believe this is how everything works.
It’s a meme targeting the incel belief system, thus the clown makeup
It’s a meme targeting lonely men by equating them with incels.
Except it makes the link with loneliness, which has nothing to do with incels. By doing so, this kind of post litteraly says that alllonely men are like the worst incels.
It is insulting. And it is directly feeding the narrative of the fascists that says that feminists are mere anti-men instead of pro-equality.
This même is a blend of arrogance, ignorance, disdain and malice. Even the fascist are rarely doing so bad.
It is a progression meme though. Your example would be Lonely=incel
Yes, by being a progression meme it implies that the final statement “there is a male loneliness epidemic” is something only arrived at by incels
Its a logic flow diagram, the first three are flawed logic , so the fourth is the wrong as the reasoning. But maybe I have been doing too many conditional and boolean statements in my software
And the progression means thatl only incels come to this conclusion. Which is where it is insulting to many men who aren’t incels.
I don’t see it as a binary choice. Maybe some people can’t read the meme format. Anyone with critical thinking can realize this is not a Venn diagram
If you had any education in logic, A => B => C means something.
When you do this logical development, it means C is the consequence of A.
The même format also implies that C is a stupid assertion, because it’s associated with the clown figure. It says that the existence of a loneliness epidemic is a stupid proposition.
This is denying reality. And this is mocking the people who suffer from loneliness.
The biggest problem is not even the link between incels and loneliness epidemic. It is the denial of the problem. This is litteraly akin to conspiracy theories.
Its a top down progression logic of conditional statements if this then this, it doesn’t work backwards. As I mentioned elsewhere it is not a Venn diagram meme where bottom statement is the only way you could be lonely.
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No, only sad that people who call themselves progressive are making propaganda for the fascists to recruit.
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A lot of women find empathy sexy. The women who only go for alpha males are the ones you usually want to avoid.
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It’s kind of a thing in certain animals, but not wolves like originally claimed. The certain animals here being mostly primates, so it’s even more applicable.
That said, the politics of social primates are notoriously complex and many cultures have unique behaviors within the species, so there aren’t really any universal rules particularly among the most social groups.
TBH, Silverbacks are actually good role models: Big, bulky, sit around grooming the troupe, know everyone, emotionally support everyone, when someone wants to start a fight, intervenes, “You wanna fight? Yeah, fight me! Both of you at once, if need be!” – and then suddenly the others lost interest in fighting.
Proverbial gymbro speaking softly and carrying a big stick, far from a tyrant, you know the type. Chimpanzees are the closest to us, with warfare and everything. Bonobos are… well, they are what biologists start talking about when they want to get into your pants. Let’s just say there’s a reason you don’t see them in zoos, parents don’t want to hear kids asking those kinds of questions.
Isn’t it weird that for humans, sex is a private matter? Completely singular among all the animals. And that’s independent of social status, like a smaller sea lion seducing a female one while the big hunk de jure leading the pack isn’t looking, it’s universal. Even if sex is a group activity, then that group itself is putting up layers of privateness and propriety. Swinger clubs with fancy dress codes, doesn’t matter if you end up naked but you have to start out in suit and tie.
If a scientist would, today, discover humanity and describe their behaviour they’d be laughed out of any conference, “did you get your notes mixed up”. “Next thing you want to tell us camelopards are real”.
I’m currently a stay at home husband who does all the cooking, cleaning and dishes.
Easy to throw stones when you’re not the one responsible for keeping the lights on.
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You are.
The main problem being that they’re cheapskates and won’t lift a finger for anything not directly benefitting themselves. They don’t know how to cook, and learning anything unrelated to their jobs is seen as a “waste of time”
Maybe they’re stuck trying to get ahead in their career and don’t have the mental energy to focus on anything else. Most single dudes I know are focused on their careers because where they’re at doesn’t meet their needs or isn’t enough to meet their goals even if the goal is as simple as just owning a home and be able to retire someday.
If your goals in life start and end with personal wealth, you should expect stones thrown at you. Not sure what else you’re expecting with that level of egotism.
It’s not wealth I’m after. It’s security. I want to be able to reach a point in my life where I don’t have to give 50+ hours of my time every week to some fucking company that doesn’t give a shit about me just to barely scrape by on rent and groceries. I can’t do that from where I’m so I have to save money wherever possible and build my career. Congrats to the guy I responded to for finding someone willing and capable of providing for him but most of us aren’t going to be so fortunate.
Let me be more blunt about this.
You’re going to die. No matter how much money you make, no matter whether you own your own house or not, no matter whether you can buy whatever food you fancy, you are going to die.
If you’re spending your life just thinking about how to make more money, your life is pointless. Do something better with it.
What do you propose I do? I already said I’m fucking broke. I have no space of my own to do hobbies. I can’t afford to travel. I go out with my friends a couple times a month and that kills my spending budget because everything is expensive now. I just had to buy a laptop and get my car worked on (again because I don’t have a space of my own to do it myself) and just that wiped out six months of savings. How can I think about anything but money when if I take my eye off the ball I’ll be fucked?
There’s not a male loneliness epidemic.
There’s a loneliness epidemic.
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf
“Joking” by trying to turn this into men vs women is pretty gross.
It is a parody of the incel belief system, not actually meant to represent an equal cross section of society
It can be read either way.
It’s also simple enough in structure to be generated slop and the OP could just be an automated account.
It’s hard to say what is true, but on the face of it we should all be able to agree that it would be a bigoted opinion to express literally, out loud and in public.
(Like the OP is doing)
The title should be different but the meme stands on its own. The clown has built a logical fallacy of why he is lonely. To me this is a jab at incel beliefs and doesn’t have a deeper meaning
The solutions look a lot different for the real loneliness epidemic than a “male loneliness epidemic”. You fix the first by creating more walkable cities, more third places you can be without needing to spend money, and giving people the time and money they need to go out, do things, and socialize.
The proposed solutions for the “male loneliness epidemic” seem to be a lot more like shitty men saying “women need to lower their standards and be okay with being my therapist/mom/girlfriend, while I change nothing about myself”
To the average person not caught up in culture war issues, the OP looks like the exact mirror of “women need to lower their standards and be okay with being my therapist/mom/girlfriend, while I change nothing about myself”. That’s a disgusting take, as is saying that men are lonely because they objectify women and have no empathy.
On their face they’re both shitty misogynist/misandrist viewpoints.
It’s bigotry and sharing bigoted memes is wrong, regardless of which ‘side’ is being targeted.
In addition, the underlying message in both of these viewpoints is an attempt to frame the real loneliness epidemic as something that is fabricated by ‘the other side’ and not a real issue with real victims.
There’s a reason the guy in the meme is dressed like a clown.
I completely understand the meme.
I just think the underlying assumptions that the joke is built on are misandrist. In addition, the implication that the loneliness epidemic isn’t real or is largely caused by men (or women in the reverse of this meme) is causing real damage.
You can’t talk about loneliness online without toxic people (“incel”/“femcel”) using these kind of “jokes” to be bigots and people who’re not steeped in online culture read this as “men are lonely because they objectify women and are have no empathy”
It’s not against the community rules, but it’s a joke built on bigotry and I think it’s toxic.
This meme is not turning it into a men versus women thing. It’s mocking people who do by calling them clowns.
When all your “friends” are alpha bro podcasters trying to get you to buy shit, yeah you’re gonna be lonely.
The young men’s version of a facebook MLM group.
More men should read The will to change by bell hooks. Patriarchy hurts men in different ways than it does women, we are all oppressed by it, including gender-nonconforming individuals. Patriarchy stunts male emotional health and creates these unhealthy repressed feelings. Rather than blaming women, men should look towards the systems that impact our daily lives and how they force us into little boxes we don’t always fit neatly into naturally, suffocating us and justifying the general subjugation of women, which in no unclear terms exceeds the suffering of men under patriarchy.
It is so fucking odd, how many people are claiming that e.g. the male loneliness issue is blaming women and then agree with your post.
I agree with your post. I just don’t understand how so many people here can agree that the patriarchy is harming men and is e.g. isolating men, but then turn around and act like mentioning the symptoms and talking about them, makes you misogynistic.
I don’t get it. Women have my support, I just hope I will have theirs too.
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hooks suggests that men need to develop a more nuanced and inclusive understanding of masculinity, one that values emotions, relationships, and mutual respect.
Yep, written by a woman. Replace that with “value traversing rivers on couches strapped to floats and having a blast with the pals” and you’ll get somewhere.
Valuing something already is an emotion so you’re being emotional about being emotional about something so, yeah, no. Go climb a tree, create a tasty recipe, fix a shoe. Shave the soap.
Fr. A male friend of mine got into make up. Nail polish and such. I notice men who do this, stick to safe black. I asked if he wanted more colour, and he did. I remember cracking being a thing back in 2008 or so. A great caviat to go from just black, to black with colour! Perhaps men could bring this back into fashion lol
Couldn’t agree more, but if you think about it…
I wish we could all come together from all gender identities, nationalities, political affiliations, social strata, educational background, skin color, hair color, favorite music style and belief system and just accepted that while circumstances are different for every one of us, there are a few really bad people, a few really good people and a lot of people that just need to feel like they belong to something in all of those dimensions.
But I guess if we did that, how would the really bad people get their votes or money from us?
I hope toxic men stop being toxic and I’m sorry to everyone that has ever been hurt by a toxic man.
toxic men
Kinda sad and ironic, that the term “toxic masculinity” began as a way to describe how culture manufactures a harmful concept of what it means to be a man, and it seeps into men and damages them like a toxin… but now we use it to mean that the man himself is toxic, undermining the whole notion of thinking of the problem as systemic rather than one of individuals.
Anyway, patriarchy is absolutely demolishing men right now, and the political right is saying “women’s fault” while the left is saying “lmao skill issue”. If we don’t get our shit together and start treating this seriously, we’re gonna have big problems.
if the problem is that men have loneliness issues i have a solution.
it’s men, more than one, become friends.
is there a issue with modern social alienation caused by individual atomisation? yes.
should we focus on it? yes
does it mean that women owe them sex? fuck no,
