Workers owning their own company would incentivize creating stable growth, since the workers aren’t going to willfully destroy the company they all have a stake in.
Whereas now we have unstable growth because the C suites, executives and shareholders milk companies dry and then toss them. They have no concerns about whether the bottom rung guys are sustainable.
I think people define capitalism vastly differently. To some capitalism is simply the ability to trade goods for personal profit, which exists in almost every society. To others its the dictionary definition of an economic and political system.
What? I don’t even have a stake in this debate. I am just pointing out how often I notice that two people seem to be discussing entirely different ideas.
Actually, yeah. Trade embargos starved those countries and the CIA killed the few real communists who managed to garner any influence, eliminating any real movements towards a marxist ideal
Ah yes, it wasn’t the expropriation and execution/imprisonment of competent farmers and the general failures of central planning, it’s all about them trade embargos.
Sure, go one and tell us who were the illuminated people touched by the grace of God that were just too powerful to wander around the Earth in the view of the CIA.
If it wasn’t for those pesky americans, the World would be the perfect kumbaya by now.
Che Geuvara, Salvador Allende, Jacobo Arbenz, Fidel Castro, Martin Luther King Jr (via FBI COINTELPRO, proven in a civil lawsuit) are a few names. Operation Condor, the Vietnam war, the Korean War, the Palmer Raids, and many more examples exist of violent oppression of communists by the US government
As for the people I don’t know Salvador Allende nor Jacobo Arbenz, but Fidel and Che were two bloodthirsty armsmen that just picked up whatever ideology fitted at the time. There is a reason why since then until now people try to escape from Cuba into the US. Also, I believe the US only really took an interest in them when they accepted the Soviet nukes.
As for Martin Luther King Jr, he was definitly persecuted, but was it because he was a communist? I’m not sure of that.
Do you really want to use the Korean war as an example of the US oppressing communists? Really? You literaly just have to compare how both sides ended up.
Che’s death was mourned across the world. That’s not something you can say about most bloodthirsty dictators. He was a revolutionary that cared deeply about the poor, downtrodden, and oppressed. When he was a doctor, he saw the effects of capitalism in his patients, which radicalized him because he felt that the only true way to help people was to overthrow the systems of oppression. The US took interest in them because they were communists, plain and simple. The anti-communist stance of the US government dictated all of the foreign affairs of the cold war. It’s why Arbenz and Allende were overthrown. Kissinger stated this on overthrowing Allende:
“I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.”
He’s saying that the dictatorship of capitalists can never be questioned, and it’s unacceptable for anyone to try a system other than capitalism, even if it’s done peacefully and in a fair democratic election.
Do you know why MLK was in Memphis when he was killed? He was there in solidarity with sanitation workers that were on strike. Just like with communism abroad, socialists within the country were explicitly targeted. MLK, Angela Davis, Fred Hampton, Kwume Ture, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, and many more were targeted because of their leftist, socialist, revolutionary attitudes.
Shows what you know about the precursor and initial aftermath to the Korean war. North Korea was prosperous and had enough surplus food to send mutual aid to South Korea after the ceasefire, which was experiencing a famine. Several factors have led to the state being a dictatorship that I will not defend or support, however, in case you want me to accuse me of supporting their many crimes against humanity.
I don’t know where you people get this concept. Humans are the issue, not capitalism. There’s literally no functioning system of trade without capitalism. It’s just human nature. We are greedy and we want more than others so that we feel secure in our own future. It’s not fucking rocket scientist, and it’s not fucking capitalism.
Do you really Envision a world where everyone works equally and gets paid equally and nobody makes extra profit but somehow people are happy? That doesn’t sound like any of the humans I’ve ever known, even the nice ones. You need to be a little bit more realistic and get your childish ass out of the playground.
We couldn’t even get people to wear masks to not kill each other and you’re over here holding your breath for agapelandia lmao
There are no casual factors between wealth disparity and cost of living, and if anything an extreme enough wealth disparity lowers cost of living - serfs had a very low cost of living.
Not sure why you felt the need to insult me, but I assure you I need no further life experience to recall historical facts
There are innumerable functioning systems of trade without capitalism. My point is capitalism is intrinsically violent and wasteful. War is profit. But there ARE mutualist, communalist, and voluntary approaches to labor as well just to name a few.
I also have to point out that the gold standard in the case of USD is effectively maintained by a obscenely expansive worldwide military presence which can’t be a good thing long term and how about that ongoing pandemic we don’t talk about? How long can we as species get away with ignoring the real, big, systemic problems? Capitalism is NOT fixing them, and won’t.
Regardless you’re real mistaken, I don’t envision some perfect world, dont accuse me of naivety- I’m a tired, jaded anarchist, not a communist. Anyways I am truly sorry you’ve only ever known assholes… I’m not holding my breath for anything just speaking my mind, and maybe I change someone’s, at least I tried
I’ll never understand statements like these. Capitalism is the #1 reason there’s a profit incentive for any given thing to be horrible.
Workers owning a company would also have a profit incentive because the workers would like to make more money.
Workers owning their own company would incentivize creating stable growth, since the workers aren’t going to willfully destroy the company they all have a stake in.
Whereas now we have unstable growth because the C suites, executives and shareholders milk companies dry and then toss them. They have no concerns about whether the bottom rung guys are sustainable.
You’re going to need to define “stable” and “unstable” growth here.
So it was because of capitalism that the communist revolution killed millions of people around the world.
Uh, the more you know…
I think people define capitalism vastly differently. To some capitalism is simply the ability to trade goods for personal profit, which exists in almost every society. To others its the dictionary definition of an economic and political system.
What you’re missing is that the first group there is populated by idiots.
You, just now
What? I don’t even have a stake in this debate. I am just pointing out how often I notice that two people seem to be discussing entirely different ideas.
Actually, yeah. Trade embargos starved those countries and the CIA killed the few real communists who managed to garner any influence, eliminating any real movements towards a marxist ideal
Ah yes, it wasn’t the expropriation and execution/imprisonment of competent farmers and the general failures of central planning, it’s all about them trade embargos.
Sure, focus on half of what I said rather than actually read the whole thing
Sure, go one and tell us who were the illuminated people touched by the grace of God that were just too powerful to wander around the Earth in the view of the CIA.
If it wasn’t for those pesky americans, the World would be the perfect kumbaya by now.
Che Geuvara, Salvador Allende, Jacobo Arbenz, Fidel Castro, Martin Luther King Jr (via FBI COINTELPRO, proven in a civil lawsuit) are a few names. Operation Condor, the Vietnam war, the Korean War, the Palmer Raids, and many more examples exist of violent oppression of communists by the US government
As for the people I don’t know Salvador Allende nor Jacobo Arbenz, but Fidel and Che were two bloodthirsty armsmen that just picked up whatever ideology fitted at the time. There is a reason why since then until now people try to escape from Cuba into the US. Also, I believe the US only really took an interest in them when they accepted the Soviet nukes.
As for Martin Luther King Jr, he was definitly persecuted, but was it because he was a communist? I’m not sure of that.
Do you really want to use the Korean war as an example of the US oppressing communists? Really? You literaly just have to compare how both sides ended up.
You clearly don’t know much about history.
Che’s death was mourned across the world. That’s not something you can say about most bloodthirsty dictators. He was a revolutionary that cared deeply about the poor, downtrodden, and oppressed. When he was a doctor, he saw the effects of capitalism in his patients, which radicalized him because he felt that the only true way to help people was to overthrow the systems of oppression. The US took interest in them because they were communists, plain and simple. The anti-communist stance of the US government dictated all of the foreign affairs of the cold war. It’s why Arbenz and Allende were overthrown. Kissinger stated this on overthrowing Allende:
He’s saying that the dictatorship of capitalists can never be questioned, and it’s unacceptable for anyone to try a system other than capitalism, even if it’s done peacefully and in a fair democratic election.
Do you know why MLK was in Memphis when he was killed? He was there in solidarity with sanitation workers that were on strike. Just like with communism abroad, socialists within the country were explicitly targeted. MLK, Angela Davis, Fred Hampton, Kwume Ture, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, and many more were targeted because of their leftist, socialist, revolutionary attitudes.
Shows what you know about the precursor and initial aftermath to the Korean war. North Korea was prosperous and had enough surplus food to send mutual aid to South Korea after the ceasefire, which was experiencing a famine. Several factors have led to the state being a dictatorship that I will not defend or support, however, in case you want me to accuse me of supporting their many crimes against humanity.
I don’t know where you people get this concept. Humans are the issue, not capitalism. There’s literally no functioning system of trade without capitalism. It’s just human nature. We are greedy and we want more than others so that we feel secure in our own future. It’s not fucking rocket scientist, and it’s not fucking capitalism.
Do you really Envision a world where everyone works equally and gets paid equally and nobody makes extra profit but somehow people are happy? That doesn’t sound like any of the humans I’ve ever known, even the nice ones. You need to be a little bit more realistic and get your childish ass out of the playground.
We couldn’t even get people to wear masks to not kill each other and you’re over here holding your breath for agapelandia lmao
Did you read the article?
https://lemmy.world/comment/2996502
You can’t make long ass statements like this witbout even reading the reasons cited in the article through government data.
The cost of living is a capitalist concept.
No, it isn’t. Lol
There are fundamental costs to human survival and those costs must be borne out somewhere. Hunter/gatherers also had a cost of living.
The rising disparity in wealth is a result of capitalism.
The cost of living is so high because we’re funneling as much money as possible to as few people as possible.
Every day it gets worse, and this is by design.
Disparity in wealth does not impact cost of living. That’s nonsensical.
Wow. I’m sorry you believe that.
Either you’re trolling or woefully ignorant about the world around you. Either way, I can’t communicate with people like you.
You need more life experience.
Goodbye.
There are no casual factors between wealth disparity and cost of living, and if anything an extreme enough wealth disparity lowers cost of living - serfs had a very low cost of living.
Not sure why you felt the need to insult me, but I assure you I need no further life experience to recall historical facts
Animals foraging resources in nature is capitalism mannnnn
The things people choose to believe never cease to amaze me.
you’re projecting your own terrible views here, not stating universal fact
fucking lol
https://theconversation.com/humans-arent-inherently-selfish-were-actually-hardwired-to-work-together-144145
https://socialistworker.co.uk/features/human-nature-and-social-change/
There are innumerable functioning systems of trade without capitalism. My point is capitalism is intrinsically violent and wasteful. War is profit. But there ARE mutualist, communalist, and voluntary approaches to labor as well just to name a few. I also have to point out that the gold standard in the case of USD is effectively maintained by a obscenely expansive worldwide military presence which can’t be a good thing long term and how about that ongoing pandemic we don’t talk about? How long can we as species get away with ignoring the real, big, systemic problems? Capitalism is NOT fixing them, and won’t. Regardless you’re real mistaken, I don’t envision some perfect world, dont accuse me of naivety- I’m a tired, jaded anarchist, not a communist. Anyways I am truly sorry you’ve only ever known assholes… I’m not holding my breath for anything just speaking my mind, and maybe I change someone’s, at least I tried
The gold standard lmao really?