a tale as old as time itself
Literally the same words said in December 2021 could possibly prevent:
- invasion of Ukraine;
- death of dozens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and turning of millions of Ukrainians to refugees;
- destruction of dozens of Ukrainian cities;
- loss of Ukrainian territory to Russia;
- loss of Ukrainian rare minerals to US.
The Trump administration is just saying loud what all the other NATO governors have been hiding. No one ever planned to fight Russia for Ukraine and the only destiny for Ukrainian aboriginals is to be used as proxy cannon fodder to fight one of NATO’s bogeymen.
NATO countries never cared about Ukraine’s casualities to the point that they decided that Ukrainian lives were worth less than a signed piece of paper with the aforementioned statement: ‘No NATO for Ukraine’. Everything that happens to the people of Ukraine is just collateral damage on the way to the main goal – to harm Russia. The colonizer mentality (so well known to many NATO countries) never changes.
I love how you get downvoted for stating the obvious.
Why stop now: they’ve been downvoting us for saying these same things for years.
voting is the only way libs know how to engage politically after all
That’s what Daddy Putin wants, so that’s what Daddy Putin gets.
This is what America wanted. Biden made no effort to provide Ukraine with the weapons to win.
They were never going to get into NATO. Behind closed doors, Ukraine not getting into NATO has been bipartisan consensus for a long time. And Trump is not Putin’s puppet.
You are screaming into the void. The people downvoting you think Butcher Biden is a good person, they are a lost cause.
The whole hexbear situation caused me to make a lemmygrad account and now when I sort by all rather than local it’s a constant stream of posts that are just :jesse-wtf:
Sorting by All is like opening the Hellraiser puzzle box.
that’s why hexbear was awesome, they provided needful levity/distraction from the liberal shit takes on .ml and the ultra heavy content of 'grad; now you can only get that from all.
You can also browse Hex with a Hex account, still.
like why is my front page full of femboy selfies? I’m not hating just used to the no self doxxing rule.
Yep, it’s grim out here.
What happaned with Hexbear?
Let the domain name expire as a bit. 😞
WatchMojo’s Top 10 Pranks Gone Too Far
To add on, it’s going to get a new domain and new name but the instance is going to stay the same.
are they going to be able to refederate?
I can push them left* lmao
Source for any of this? Would be interested to know more about these points.
I don’t have sources on hand for the the first point, but I do for the second.
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
As for the first point, it’s been covered by the likes of John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, Noam Chomsky, Michael Hudson, and Glenn Diesen. Some political figures have admitted as much, but unfortunately I don’t recall who off the top of my head.
That’s a lot of stuff about President Trump and the elections but nothing as far as I see about the bipartisan stance that Ukraine isn’t going to join NATO.
The Hill yesterday: Zelensky: US ‘didn’t want us in NATO’ even before Trump
The comment you missed two days ago due to defederation: https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/5979621
You want some kind of evidence that the USA was never going to permit the Ukraine to join NATO? What would this look like?
They dangled this carrot to start their proxy war and once it got going immediately recanted.
Biden says it ‘remains to be seen’ whether Ukraine will be admitted to NATO
Biden ‘looks forward’ to Ukraine NATO membership, just not now
Russia has been consistent that NATO membership would be a declaration of war by the US/NATO, so it would mean the end of civilisation. It’s an absurd idea. As much as Russia forming a military alliance with Cuba and Mexico.
You want some kind of evidence that the USA was never going to permit the Ukraine to join NATO? What would this look like?
They dangled this carrot to start their proxy war and once it got going immediately recanted.
Biden says it ‘remains to be seen’ whether Ukraine will be admitted to NATO
Biden ‘looks forward’ to Ukraine NATO membership, just not now
Russia has been consistent that NATO membership would be a declaration of war by the US/NATO, so it would mean the end of civilisation. It’s an absurd idea. As much as Russia forming a military alliance with Cuba and Mexico.
12·5 days agoLemmy.world has defederated lemmygrad, so Irish_link can’t see your comment.
Which is why it’s the only one that isn’t massively downvoted lmao. Libs ask for sources and downvote them to avoid reading.
No kidding?
I don’t have sources on hand for the the first point, but I do for the second.
As for the first point, it’s been covered by the likes of John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, Noam Chomsky, Michael Hudson, and Glenn Diesen. Some political figures have admitted as much, but unfortunately I don’t recall who off the top of my head.
Yeah. You put about 3 times the effort on your first point but have a shit ton of sources for your second. Doesn’t add up.
Also Robert Mueller was prevented from looking into the money trail during the investigation that’s why he found nothing. Puppet… maybe not but influenced absolutely. Why the heck would the US government do a 180 on our stance of helping Ukraine after President Trump was elected. “We will still maybe kinda possibly help you but you have to give us your rare minerals and be willing to lose land”
This guy doesn’t want to help Americans. Only those who have tons of money. Anything to help line his pockets and his friends.
He has shut down all information flow for health and scientific research. This means we’re sitting in the dark about potential pandemics and deadly diseases. Mpox and the strain of bird flue being the top two at the moment of many people’s list. This doesn’t even touch the measles outbreak in Texas. Measles had essentially been eradicated, but thanks for the anti-VAX push from the right We’re now dealing with something that the prior generations had worked very hard to eliminate.
Why the heck would the US government do a 180 on our stance of helping Ukraine after President Trump was elected.
There hasn’t been a 180 degree shift. Under the Biden admin, the Ukrainian government was mass privatising state assets to raise funds for the war. In fact, you can still go to the privatisation website and loot Ukraine with your own hands.
Furthermore, a not insignificant part of the aid is loans (the eu has for instance provided at least one 18 billion loan package, leading to a dramatic increase in ukraine’s external debt. The policy towards Ukraine was never generous.
Yeah. You put about 3 times the effort on your first point but have a shit ton of sources for your second. Doesn’t add up.
I didn’t put any effort in. I happened to have those articles on hand already.
Ahhh, the old “Do your own research” strategy, always a classic!
The good old “I wasn’t taught and never in my life been interested to learn how to read sources, so I’ll pretend they’re crackpot so I don’t have to read”.
Behind closed doors, the consensus has been that other countries don’t want to get dragged into the current war in accordance with NATO mutual defense agreements.
But since Trump insists that he can end the war, that’s obviously not a consideration for him - by his claims, there will be nothing more standing in the way of Ukraine membership in NATO.
Which makes this announcement that much more significant - essentially what he’s saying is that even after the main obstacle to Ukraine membership has been eliminated, the US will oppose it.
Why?
Because… no, Trump is not Putin’s puppet. He’s something even worse - a cringing sycophant, desperate for affirmation from his strongman idol.
Because… no, Trump is not Putin’s puppet. He’s something even worse - a cringing sycophant, desperate for affirmation from his strongman idol.
If you keep analyzing the current administration through the lens of Jungian analysis of Trump, you’ll keep being wrong. Great man theory is no way to go about analyzing geopolitics.
Security guarantees? Europe’s picking up the tab while Washington cashes out. Hegseth’s “pragmatic evaluation” means funneling Europe’s GDP into Lockheed Martin’s quarterly reports. NATO’s 5% defense spending target? A $2.3 trillion shakedown disguised as collective security. The Continent’s industrial base is now a Pentagon subcontractor.
Crimea’s gone. Zelensky’s bargaining chips? A lithium deposit map and a graveyard of Leopard tanks. The “non-NATO peacekeeping mission” is just a rebrand for EU cannon fodder patrols. Von der Leyen’s already drafting memos about “volunteer brigades” staffed by unemployed Iberian welders.
The real “negotiated settlement”: Trump’s Mar-a-Lago membership roster now includes Rosneft executives. Europe gets to foot the bill for demining Donbas while Chevron drills the Black Sea.
The fact that Europeans bet their whole future on a politically unstable country that can completely change its entire policy every four years will never stop being hilarious.
Europe’s gamble isn’t just hilarious; it’s tragicomic. Hitching your entire geopolitical wagon to a nation that treats foreign policy like a reality TV show is less strategy and more roulette. Every election cycle, Europe braces for the next wildcard—will it be isolationism or interventionism? Nobody knows, least of all the Americans.
Meanwhile, the EU’s “unity” is a patchwork quilt of conflicting interests, stitched together with bureaucratic duct tape. Betting on stability from across the Atlantic while your own house is on fire? That’s not foresight; it’s delusion.
The real punchline? Europe bankrolls this circus while Washington reaps the dividends. At this rate, they might as well start paying for campaign ads in Iowa.
Under this deal, Putin gets to annex key territories while Ukraine is kept out of NATO and left without American peacekeepers, forcing Europe to buy U.S. military gear. Imperialist powers divide and weaken working people by keeping nations in chaos and under constant threat. This brief period of “peace” isn’t for long as capitalist interests allow Russia to regroup and rearm. Ukraine remains in a disordered, free-for-all state under imperialist influences. In time, this setup could let Russia launch an invasion through Odessa to connect with Transnistria.
Transnistria is a thousand miles from Odessa, twice as far as St. Petersberg, and Pskov is about 400 miles away.
Vibes, vibes, vibes.
Transnistria is a thousand miles from Odessa, twice as far as St. Petersberg, and Pskov is about 400 miles away.
Vibes, vibes, vibes.
No. The material reality is that Transnistria is roughly 100–150 km from Odessa and not the thousand miles being claimed.
Pskov is near the Estonian border, and St. Petersburg is on the Baltic Sea. Neither of these cities is close to Moldova, so they are largely irrelevant to any invasion plans in that region.
It’s important to rely on concrete conditions and verifiable data rather than hyperbolic claims and vibing.
Sorry, you’re right. I was thinking of Kaliningrad.
I appreciate the change in direction with the correction, regardless of the circumstances 👁️
Get ready to see a wave of far right terrorist attacks on US/European soil when they realize what we’ve been ridiculed for saying from day one: they were used as cannon fodder, there was never any intention of NATO membership
Europe is rapidly entering the finding out stages of fucking around.
I mean, Russia is winning. What are people here expecting?
Liberals still seem to think the war can be ended if the US asks Russia politely to retreat and gain nothing.
deleted by creator
What level do you need to be to cast Bubble of Illusion?
Level of Permenant Member with Veto Status (I don’t know if they could block them joining, but I imagine they could)
Any nato member can prevent anyone from joining.
Wouldn’t this have had value as a bargaining chip in peace talks? The fact that they’re saying this now suggests that they’re about to pressure Ukraine into a truly shitty deal.
My guess is that this was Putin’s requirement to even discuss terms. Besides, Trump already secured rights to their REM, what more could we even get from Ukraine joining NATO?
Hope this guy gets hit by a dump truck
Deadbeat dad doesn’t even begin to describe the abandonment.
I mean fuck hegseth he’s a fucking Nazi but NATO is also full of Nazis too so fuck it let them fight
We get:
- Nothing
You get:
- Less than nothing
What a fucking great deal!
What a fucking great deal!
Somehow it’s always like that when some country get to serve as US proxy.
TBF the compradors get money & power, and if they’re really lucky they don’t get whacked.
“He deserves special gratitude from the Ukrainian and European establishments for telling the truth before things go way too far.”
Before??
I’m surprised a Nazi like Hegseth wants to help Russia so bad.
Nuclear war helps nobody. Hegseth doesn’t have an option here, nor does anyone in the West. They tried to push their nuclear capabilities to the last border and Russia stopped them. When the only further option is escalating towards nuclear war, then you really don’t have options. Hegseth, the media talking head that he is, has been tasked with communicating the reality on the ground, not making any real decisions here
