Can we get a consensus on whether our community should de-federate with servers that host loli? I personally think we should block them, and if that ends up not being the consensus here then I’ll probably sign up on another server. I hope we can all agree to set that boundary though because I like it here and it seems otherwise pretty cool.
This post has the same energy as parents asking legislative bodies to not allow nudity or violence in media for the entire country. What you gain in ease of use, you lose in censorship by not getting the choice to decide.
I don’t particularly care for the loli stuff but asking the admins to make that decision deprives me of choice. This instance already defederated lemmy.grad because they’re tankies and while that happens to align with my personal beliefs, it is a slippery slope.
It should be up to instance admins to decide, since they are ultimately responsible for the things that are hosted/accessible on their server.
I for one would not want to be effectively distributing any porn or loli stuff on my server, so I’ll be defederating from instances that are entirely that.
Loli stuff is illegal though, at least in the United States. Viewing even accidentally can be considered a crime. The OP has a valid point.
As far as I know it isn’t illegal in the US since the Ashcroft case in 2003, but exists in a gray area subject to the standard Miller test for obscenity that all pornography is subject to. I seriously doubt incidental viewing of it would be a crime. But I 100% could be wrong as I am not a lawyer.
I’m not a lawyer either, but a quick search shows that state law is the thing this could be breaking. It’s not criminally punishable to possess it, but acquiring or distributing it via the internet is potentially illegal. Here’s a page from a Massachusetts lawyer discussing the legality. https://anthonyricciolaw.com/is-lolicon-legal-in-the-us/#:~:text=Under federal law%2C a simple,state laws regarding child pornography.
Edit: apparently that’s only part of the requirements for illegality. The other part is sexuality or not having “value” which is subjective. Either way, it’s a dice roll on criminal acts.
It is okay to admit you were misinformed. It doesn’t reflect anything negative about you as a person, and shows you are open to growth.
I’ve seen this image where it’s basically a state by state case of legality
Nice, I’m going to take that at face value since if I do any more googling about this Google is going to get some wrong ideas about me.
This server isn’t in the United States.
Please do not. Although I don’t personally want to see lolicon stuff, many of the servers willing to host it have communities I want to interact with. For instance, burggit.moe is where the touhou communities went and is otherwise a pretty nice instance aside from loli communities.
It is content which, while understandably offensive to some, harms nobody. All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.
It should be up to users to block or hide instances with content they don’t wish to see, and defederation should be reserved for communities that consistently cause interference, not for communities that simply have content which one disagrees with.
Yeah its a pretty nice experience on burggit other than the one or two loli communitys (that everyone can easily block for themselves)
This
why are all of the touhou communites on there
like, that’s weird; there’s tons of lemmy instances that they could have been on, and kbin has a (very inactive) community as well
onto the point:
All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.
This may be true, but you can’t blame many users for being really turned off by it; like I think it’d be perfectly acceptable if most people don’t want to interact with an instance hosting that.
If you don’t like that, then you might have to move to another instance tbh
As I’ve pointed out in a few spots on this post: regardless of your moral stance, loli is considered the same as child porn by many government agencies. You may not be “harming” anyone, but you’re harming the people that host and view that content in a criminal sense.
You got downvoted for telling the truth. This place is the new reddit.
Why not just leave it up to users on user by user basis? Are we already trying to regulate stuff on this platform? Block stuff if you don’t like it, ignore if not. I’m by no means for loli personally, but that’s going to start a snowball of overstepping and pretty soon it’ll be like R where everything is locked, deleted, blocked, or hidden.
If it’s not illegal, ignore it.
The “slippery slope” argument is a logical fallacy.
Disregarding an argument because it contains a fallacy is a fallacy too.
We’ve seen this happen on Reddit and I’ve seen it happen in multiple subs. The comment might have been alarmist but given past examples it’s not unfounded.
Tu quoque is a fallacy. Pointing out fallacies isn’t, I checked.
I cant say that defederating is the right or wrong move, I’m just tired of bad faith argument. There is a balance to be stricken between regulation and libertarianism, the question to be answered is where that balance lies. Disavowing any new regulation as an inevitable descent into complete loss of freedom is ridiculous.
I don’t disagree with your stance. I just want to point out that the fallacy exists. It’s called the “Fallacy fallacy” or “Argument from fallacy”
Well shit, I stand corrected. Props to you. /gen
Not appearing on a list with a Latin name doesn’t mean something isn’t a fallacy either. They’re inventing all sorts of new and exciting ways to be wrong lately.
Loli is illegal in some countries. It’s illegal in the US, if that’s where OP is located. Any depiction of a minor in a sexual situation, whether drawn or photographed, is considered child pornography.
it isn’t illegal in the us another comment thread was discussing it
No need to defederate. I just went and blocked loli and related communities that popped up. I will never see them again.
So, my vote is NAY.
Federation is still young.
It may be easy to individually block communities now but what about in a few months/years when there are potentially 10x more communities across 10x more instances?
How intimidating would it be for a new user to have to go through 100+ communities and block them all individually instead of just blocking 5-10 instances?
How exactly do I do that?
You click the three dots at the bottom-right corner of a post/comment and then click 🚫 to block the community/poster.
Would you say the same about a gore community?
I would block gore communities on a personal level, but there’s no need to do so on a server level unless they’re doing something worth defederating for, like any of the following:
- posting cp
- using their server to DoS/DDoS others
- dox-ing people
- allowing their users to harass others AND refusing to punish such behavior
- same as above except for ban evasion
I’d like to have a force-nsfw option for communities that don’t enforce proper usage of the NSFW tag, but for now I’d have to block them most likely.
I like watching gore.
Then you’re more than welcome to; I’m just not a fan.
I don’t like gore, but I miss /r/watchpeopledie. I learned a lot from that.
Personally, I’m fine with a NSFW tag, and would hope that NSFW instances respect other instances enough to properly tag stuff.
Any instance with a gore community? Nah, screw that noise. Add it to the block list.
Tbh I think an instance not enforcing tagging content as nsfw is probably very strong grounds for blocking imo
Absolutely.
But that’s such a bad user experience.
I mean I should hope it’d be blurred out on All
with a content warning or without? Blurring is useful for lewd content imo where you don’t suffer when clicking it, it just hides for the public when reading in train. But I don’t want content just blurred that is literally mentally scarring to the average user.
A NSFL tag would do fine.
Just block the communitys you don’t want to see.
I am biased in this situation, but I just think leaving it to the individual to block specific communities is better than blocking an entire instance for every user.
Yeah blocking a whole instance because they allow something like that is definitely way over the top of a reaction.
Isn’t that the point of decentralization allowing users to pick and choose what they want to see? If you don’t want to see Loli all you have to do is block the server from your feed. I’m not a fan of Hentaiof any of its subs. But I digress, I’m not on your server so I guess I don’t really have a say. 😁
No the point of decentralization is not that the user has to do all the moderation work themselves.
I don’t want to see gore to block it, though.
I too would like the ability to block at the instance level as a user. Haven’t come across loli, but @lemmynsfw.com does show up quite a bit when looking at All.
I have no problem at all with other sh.it.heads wanting to look at/interact with nsfw stuff from that instance, but I’m personally not interested. Given this, defederation seems extreme, but blocking on a community-by-community basis is time consuming and, as others have said, necessitates seeing the content to some degree (pretty sure you can choose whether stuff is blurred or not in your feed via the settings). I’d rather key ‘@lemmynsfw.com’ into a block list once, and go back to what I’m doing.
No, wrong approach because it blocks users simply interacting. What is needed is a solution for the All feed.
Perhaps I explained it poorly (or just have some fundamental misunderstanding - both are equally likely), but this is more the ability to personally block posts from all communities hosted on a given instance by defining the block at the instance level, not comments from users from instances I blocked posts on, nor posts that those users make on communities in whitelisted instances. Users should be blocked on an individual basis, for sure. If it gets to the point that too many people here have to do this for users from one specific instance, that’s when defederation should be on the table IMO.
This way, if it’s able to be done, I block @lemmynsfw.com and
-I don’t see anything from c/[any]@lemmynsfw.com.
-I do see a reply from user [x]@lemmynsfw.com on comments/posts I made in communities on other instances.
-I do see a post from user [x]@lemmynsfw.com on c/[any]@sh.itjust.worksIf this can be done, I’m perfectly happy the leave All the way it is otherwise. But there could be other ways to address this, and I’m super open to hearing better approaches.
I agree, right now Lemmy and kbin and others are still growing, so instances right now with a dozen communities may have a hundred in a few months/years and if you don’t want to see nsfw content you would potentially have to individually block hundreds of communities from @lemmtnsfw.com to keep it from your all feed.
It may be somewhat feasible now but the problem will only get worse going forward when you should be able to choose to “defederate” yourself from communities you know hold no value to you personally instead of relying on your whole instance to defederate itself from those communities when other users may not want to.
Just want to chime in here, if you don’t want to see NSFW content you can hide it on your profile. Only reason I’m pointing this out is because this particular comment seems to have the goal of hiding NSFW content from view in general. Something entirely possible in Lemmy profile settings as seen in the attached image.
Thanks
For the sake of argument I’ll approach this from a different perspective than everyone else.
Depending on jurisdiction there might be implications in hosting an instance that is federated with instances that host loli. I’m not familiar enough with Canada’s laws and / or le Code Civil du Québec to know if it is considered CSAM, but assuming it is does federating with those communities replicate the media on this instance as well? Would this count as ‘redistributing it’?
Canada laws on CSAM are very strict. even written fictional text are considered csam by law definition. And yes, a known horror novel writer has been charged for csam production in a fiction book. he’s been acquitted tho, fortunately. But that raise an alarm that tell us that cops can arrest you for pretty much anything . If you sculpt a loli into ficello string cheese , that enter the definition of CP in Canada.
there is a part of definition saying: "and other visual representation " which is very vague and broad .
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-163.1.html
If you sculpt a loli into ficello string cheese , that enter the definition of CP in Canada.
First they came for the string cheese, and I did not speak up for I was lactose intolerant
I dont think defederation is the way to go here. It could be another scenario that could be solve elegantly via a tagging system.
But I agree that stuff which is in a legal grey area or outright forbidden in many countries should not show per default on All. There already is a NSFW setting that you can activate and deactivate (this btw can solve the issue to 99% for you right now if you’re willing to pass on other NSFW content).
There could be an additional setting to see things that “might be illegal in your country of residence” or simply NSFL. If you then mark such communities appropriatly it could solve the issue for people that want a) no exposure and b) no legal risk due to being shown such communities. And I count myself among those that dont want anything to do with loli or the likes.
Users viewing illegal content is one thing but instance owners hosting it is also an issue.
I might be wrong about how content mirroring on Lemmy works but I’d imagine instance owners would clearly be liable for “publishing” any illegal content hosted on their instance.
There’s not really a way out of this using tags. And the moderation log probably needs to be purged from the actually offending content as well. And in the specific case of CP (which can include loli depending on the jurisdiction) having the content in a database might also be illegal.
So that’s a whole headache…
No content from other instances are hosted here. When you see an image from a community on another instance, what you’re seeing is an embedded image linked from the other instance.
shota not mentioned simp post
Am really confused
How do you get unsuscribed instances on your feed?
If you are browsing by All then you see them all
I think , i haven’t tried but I have seen it mentioned around. That we can block communities , so maybe that’s something.
I’d also like to have the ability to block entire instances. Not sure if the architecture would allow that, but at least the mobile apps should be able to filter out all posts from a specific instance
needs to be at least easy to make sure default all is sane, once a user signs in and does what they will they can see or block what they please, with start being the same sfw default .
What is loli?
Underage anime girl
That’s not true. It’s a petite anime girl, not underage. People keep trying to conflate the two. It’s weird because even if they have big boobs and are obviously legal people still try to shove them into the title of being underage. (like the petite sensei, Uzaki, and Hestia from Is it Wrong to Pick up Girls in a Dungeon).
I mean yeah of course. That character is actually a 9000-year old vampire, not a child
/s
Oh come on, the examples I gave are one in their twenties, one in college, and one who’s a god. Their stories completely revolve around them being their ages. You are doing the exact conflating of the two I was talking about.
I agree with you technically kinda, but the average person doesn’t (and never will) see a difference and trying to explain it just makes it seem to them that you are defending it.
If a normal person sees it and says … “thats wrong” then it shouldn’t be included in a default feed.
I wasn’t even talking about whether or not it should be included in the feed. I was just saying their definition is completely wrong. Defining things improperly is the basis for spreading misinformation about something.
and I’m saying that sometimes the definition is irrelevant in the eyes of public opinion. If a character looks like a child, then that is all that matters.
that’s oppai loli
Loli is still literally in the name. Twitter freaks still try to cancel it.
Drawings of fictional, usually underaged, characters; typically but not always from anime/manga.
Basically shortstack anime girls or childrenish looking ones.
