hey folks, we’ll be quick and to the point with this one:

we have made the decision to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. we recognize this is hugely inconvenient for a wide variety of reasons, but we think this is a decision we need to take immediately. the remainder of the post details our thoughts and decision-making on why this is necessary.

we have been concerned with how sustainable the explosion of new users on Lemmy is–particularly with federation in mind–basically since it began. i have already related how difficult dealing with the explosion has been just constrained to this instance for us four Admins, and increasingly we’re being confronted with external vectors we have to deal with that have further stressed our capabilities (elaborated on below).

an unfortunate reality we’ve also found is we just don’t have the tools or the time here to parse out all the good from all the bad. all we have is a nuke and some pretty rudimentary mod powers that don’t scale well. we have a list of improvements we’d like to see both on the moderation side of Lemmy and federation if at all possible–but we’re unanimous in the belief that we can’t wait on what we want to be developed here. separately, we want to do this now, while the band-aid can be ripped off with substantially less pain.

aside from/complementary to what’s mentioned above, our reason for defederating, by and large, boils down to:

  • these two instances’ open registration policy, which is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it makes trolling, harassment, and other undesirable behavior;
  • the disproportionate number of moderator actions we take against users of these two instances, and the general amount of time we have to dedicate to bad actors on those two instances;
  • our need to preserve not only a moderated community but a vibe and general feeling this is actually a safe space for our users to participate in;
  • and the reality that fulfilling our ethos is simply not possible when we not only have to account for our own users but have to account for literally tens of thousands of new, completely unvetted users, some of whom explicitly see spaces like this as desirable to troll and disrupt and others of whom simply don’t care about what our instance stands for

as Gaywallet puts it, in our discussion of whether to do this:

There’s a lot of soft moderating that happens, where people step in to diffuse tense situations. But it’s not just that, there’s a vibe that comes along with it. Most people need a lot of trust and support to open up, and it’s really hard to trust and support who’s around you when there are bad actors. People shut themselves off in various ways when there’s more hostility around them. They’ll even shut themselves off when there’s fake nice behavior around. There’s a lot of nuance in modding a community like this and it’s not just where we take moderator actions- sometimes people need to step in to diffuse, to negotiate, to help people grow. This only works when everyone is on the same page about our ethos and right now we can’t even assess that for people who aren’t from our instance, so we’re walking a tightrope by trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. That isn’t sustainable forever and especially not in the face of massive growth on such a short timeframe.

Explicitly safe spaces in real life typically aren’t open to having strangers walk in off the street, even if they have a bouncer to throw problematic people out. A single negative interaction might require a lot of energy to undo.

and, to reiterate: we understand that a lot of people legitimately and fairly use these instances, and this is going to be painful while it’s in effect. but we hope you can understand why we’re doing this. our words, when we talk about building something better here, are not idle platitudes, and we are not out to build a space that grows at any cost. we want a better space, and we think this is necessary to do that right now. if you disagree we understand that, but we hope you can if nothing else come away with the understanding it was an informed decision.

this is also not a permanent judgement (or a moral one on the part of either community’s owner, i should add–we just have differing interests here and that’s fine). in the future as tools develop, cultures settle, attitudes and interest change, and the wave of newcomers settles down, we’ll reassess whether we feel capable of refederating with these communities.

thanks for using our site folks.

  • astromd@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    So I’m pretty new to all of this, but does defederation mean that I’m not able to access any of the communities on those instances, while browsing this instance on the web or in an app? Does it mean that I need to create an account on those instances directly?

    • realChem@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      An account on those instances or on any other instance that still federated with them, yes.

      • lavender dreams@waveform.social
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        1 year ago

        Wait, so if the instance I signed up on is still federated with the blocked ones, I won’t be able to interact here, even if I’ve never bothered using the blocked instances? Or did I misunderstand?

        • realChem@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          Sorry, I was unclear. You need an account that’s on any instance that still federates with lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works to view and interact with those instances. It looks like you’re on waveform.social, so this change shouldn’t affect you at all.

          All this means is that users from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works can no longer participate here on beehaw.org (which was the purpose of us defederating with them), and users from beehaw.org can no longer participate on those instances (which sucks but is unavoidable with the options currently available in lemmy). Since you’re registered on waveform.social and not any of beehaw.org, lemmy.world, or sh.itjust.works, none of that applies to you.

          tl;dr you’re all set already and shouldn’t need to do any new account creation

          • lavender dreams@waveform.social
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            1 year ago

            Ahh, got it. That was my initial understanding, I overcomplicated things - still wrapping my head around federation. Thank you for the in-depth response! That’s the kind of thing I’ve loved about this place in my short time here.

              • lavender dreams@waveform.social
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                1 year ago

                Hey, if you have time I have a second question that’s only partially related - how come my comments won’t post in other Beehaw communities? I’ve noticed that when trying to comment on posts in beehaw’s lgbtq community and a few others, it just spins forever. Is this a server overload thing, or maybe some kind of safety measure because I’m new and not native to Beehaw?

                • StringTheory@beehaw.org
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                  1 year ago

                  There is a funky bug Lemmy-wide that deselects your language choice, which causes everything to gum up and spin forever. It’s a known bug, and I’ve seen a few posts assuring people it’s on the list to be fixed.

                  Double check your language selection before you try to comment or post, watch out for that sneaky bug. It comes and goes on tippy-toes…. :)

                • realChem@beehaw.org
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                  1 year ago

                  It’s not a safety measure (I don’t think we have the technical capability to set anything like that up at this point, unless I’m quite out of the loop). It’s might be related to server load, although I think our servers are kinda over-specced at the moment to deal with the reddit refugee wave. Unfortunately it’s hard for me in particular to say much more than “it’s some kind of technical issue.” It might be worth waiting and/or closing whatever app or browser you’re using to connect, and then trying again, but that advice is basically just “have you tried turning it off and on again” so idk how helpful it’ll be. I hope you get it figured out soon though!

    • rimlogger@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Correct, you will need to create an account to view posts and interact with posts from those instances.

      • astromd@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Bummer. I agree with others this kind of thing stifles adoption. Perhaps it will get better.