US really wants to destroy Europe economically. First they cut Europe off from cheap Russia energy and now they’re gonna cut Europe off from cheap manufacturing in China. RIP Europe.
China has long put severe limits on Western companies doing business in China for strategic purposes, to grow domestic equivalents, and to aid industrial espionage. As China continues to grow but does not open up, should Europe not look out for its own security interests? After all, Europe ignoring the US’s warnings about relying too much on cheap Russian energy is part of the reason that Europe is in dire straits now.
China has long put severe limits on Western companies doing business in China for strategic purposes, to grow domestic equivalents, and to aid industrial espionage.
And yes, all the western companies find that doing business in China is worth it despite the restrictions and requirements for technology transfer. This is something companies doing business in China explicitly agree to.
As China continues to grow but does not open up, should Europe not look out for its own security interests?
Why does China have to open anything up. The model they offer is already mutually beneficial. Being able to produce things cheaply in China is looking after European interests. That’s what facilitates the living of standard people in Europe enjoy.
After all, Europe ignoring the US’s warnings about relying too much on cheap Russian energy is part of the reason that Europe is in dire straits now.
No, what put Europe in dire straights was going along with US sanctions against Russia. You have an uncanny talent for turning black into white my friend.
And yes, all the western companies find that doing business in China is worth it despite the restrictions and requirements for technology transfer. This is something companies doing business in China explicitly agree to.
Yes, it’s a large market that is hard to ignore. But countries may find themselves increasingly
Why does China have to open anything up.
They don’t. But if the West has an economy that allows for increasing Chinese ownership of vital industries, but China does not allow the opposite then it is in the West’s interests to start regulating those relationships. If China wants to be an ascendant superpower, it should not expect to be hyperprotectionist forever.
No, what put Europe in dire straights was going along with US sanctions against Russia. You have an uncanny talent for turning black into white my friend.
The response to the Russian invasion is not just driven by the US, despite what the prevailing opinion on Lemmy seems to be. It is driven both by Ukrainians, who heavily support resistance to Russian aggression, and Europeans who do not want a creeping return of war to Europe by appeasing another dictator.
Yes, it’s a large market that is hard to ignore. But countries may find themselves increasingly
increasingly?
They don’t. But if the West has an economy that allows for increasing Chinese ownership of vital industries, but China does not allow the opposite then it is in the West’s interests to start regulating those relationships. If China wants to be an ascendant superpower, it should not expect to be hyperprotectionist forever.
Clearly whatever China is doing is working a lot better than the western model. Both domestically and in terms of their international relations. Seems weird for a westerner to be lecturing China on how to conduct themselves.
Furthermore, what you call hyperprotectionist is an alternative development model to liberalism and capitalism. China is a socialist country, and that implies having industry under public control. That’s the fundamental principal of socialist development.
The response to the Russian invasion is not just driven by the US, despite what the prevailing opinion on Lemmy seems to be. It is driven both by Ukrainians, who heavily support resistance to Russian aggression, and Europeans who do not want a creeping return of war to Europe by appeasing another dictator.
The trade war with Russia has done absolutely nothing to achieve any of these goals. If anything, it’s now put Europe in a far more disadvantageous position vis-a-vis Russia. Europe is now collapsing economically, its industry is shutting down, and it’s becoming demilitarized having sent most of its weapons to be destroyed in Ukraine.
We’re already starting to see civil unrest across Europe with strikes and protests in many countries, and it’s not even winter yet. We’re also seeing far right populist governments increasingly coming to power. As the economic situation continues to unravel, it’s only a matter of time until European countries start making deals with Russia on Russian terms.
I’m not sure how anybody can argue any of the events of the past 7 months have made Europe stronger in any way.
increasingly?
LOL, ADHD brain, I jump around too much while writing. I haven’t a clue where I was going with that.
Seems weird for a westerner to be lecturing China on how to conduct themselves.
I’m not lecturing China, they are free to engage in protectionism. But they should not act indignant when other countries start playing hardball to protect their security and economic interests like China has been doing for decades.
As the economic situation continues to unravel, it’s only a matter of time until European countries start making deals with Russia on Russian terms.
Alternative view: Russia is sending its sons off to fight a fruitless war. Many of them would rather flee the country, perhaps never to return, than to be sent to the front lines. It is exasperating an already existing situation of demographic collapse in Russia. Continuing defeats can only be spun as strategic retreats for so long. Talk of a palace coup is common. Europe, meanwhile, has managed to fill its reserves of natural gas again, blunting Russia’s ability to hurt it. That gives Europe more leeway to diversify away from Russian gas and move to other energy sources.
But they should not act indignant when other countries start playing hardball to protect their security and economic interests like China has been doing for decades.
I don’t see them acting indignant anywhere. In fact, it’s the US that’s acting indignant that countries like Germany are trading with China on its own terms. The context here is that it’s U.S. pressuring Germany to act against its interests.
Alternative view: Russia is sending its sons off to fight a fruitless war.
Russia has captured 20% of the territory of Ukraine so far, and destroyed Europe economically. Doesn’t seem fruitless to me. Here’s what The Economist, a vehemently anti Russian publication, had to say just recently.
Continuing defeats can only be spun as strategic retreats for so long.
I don’t know what these continuing defeats you’re referring to are. Ukrainian counter offensive is dead in the water with Russia starting to take territory back already. Meanwhile, Russia is systematically dismantling Ukrainian power grid as we speak.
Wars are about logistics first and foremost. Russia has a huge industrial base that’s pumping weapons and ammunition that can be delivered to the frontlines by rail, and Ukraine is not able to attack behind Russian lines effectively. Meanwhile, Russia is able to hit anywhere in Ukraine with impunity.
Ukraine no longer has its own military industrial base, Russia destroyed that back in March, and relies solely on western weapons at this point, and only 30% of the weapons actually make it to the front lines. Western stocks are now becoming depleted, and the only country that’s still sending any significant aid is the US. That’s been decreasing with every single package.
Russia’s military industrial capacity is expanding, while Ukraine’s military industrial capacity is gone, and the aid is shrinking. Once republicans take the house and senate in a few days, the aid form US is likely to collapse as well.
Not only that, but Ukraine is collapsing economically as well. Pretty much the only thing keeping its economy at the moment going is US funding all its public sector. I’m not aware of any country that was able to win a war without having a functional economy throughout history. Perhaps you could fill me in on how you expect that to work.
Meanwhile, there are no talks about any kind of coup in Russia that I’m aware of. If you think talks of coup are common in Russia you’re guzzling propaganda. The government has massive support right now.
Europe, meanwhile, has managed to fill its reserves of natural gas again, blunting Russia’s ability to hurt it. That gives Europe more leeway to diversify away from Russian gas and move to other energy sources.
You don’t seem to understand that the reserves aren’t meant to replace pipeline flow. They’re meant to supplement it. Europe is in a dire situation right now with UK recently reporting only having 9 days of gas left. Over 60% of the energy that Europe got from Russia cannot be replaced right now. Any sort of energy diversification will take years.
European countries are now starting to break, as I predicted just yesterday.
The end result of all this will be the destruction of EU and NATO. As European countries run out of resources, they will have no choice but to follow what Hungary and Netherlands are doing. People in Europe are also realizing that US has led them up the garden path the same way they did Ukraine. This is breeding massive resentment against US and NATO as we see with all the protests against NATO in Europe right now. Seems to me that’s very much a desirable outcome for Russia.
