Is there a hard threshold? Do high risk investments such as penny stocks qualify as gambling? Do low risk investments? Annuities? Bonds? CDs?

This comment got me wondering.

Is it more to do with the venue? Stock markets and real estate vs casinos and the lottery?

Were the MIT Blackjack Team gambling or investing?

Or Jerry and Marge Selbee?

Is this just another semantic hotdogs are sandwiches discussion or is there an agreed threshold?

  • bss03@infosec.pub
    122·
    6 months ago

    IMO: When you do it for the entertainment/feeling/rush, it’s gambling. When you do it for the returns, it is investing. I also think the other poster that mentioned investing as being interested in the success of the endeavor, that would exclude shorting and I think might be a useful distinction.

    Casino games and sports betting all have lower expected value (probabilistic value) than their cost, so they are not something you can do for returns (you have better expected returns by not participating).

    There are plenty of people that are misinformed, dishonest, or stuck finding a bigger fool that will sell you a gamble by calling it an investment, and expected value is not guaranteed value.

    • Moneo@lemmy.world
      22·
      6 months ago

      If you’re talking about stock picking, hard disagree. Emotion has nothing to do with it whether or not it’s gambling.

      If picking stocks was anything but a gamble portfolio managers wouldn’t have such a god awful track record.

      • bss03@infosec.pub
        1·
        6 months ago

        Just because you are wrong about your expected value calculations (or were right but the actual return was on the lower end of the range) and have made a bad investment doesn’t change the fact that it was an investment because you were doing it for the returns.

        In short, performance doesn’t matter for this distinction, at least IMO.

        • Moneo@lemmy.world
          11·
          6 months ago

          You can dress it up in whatever language you want but when nobody is able to consistently beat the market it looks a hell of a lot like gambling.

          • bss03@infosec.pub
            1·
            6 months ago

            The DJIA (e.g.) isn’t “the house”. It isn’t something you are competing with in that your losses are its/their gain. You are misunderstanding both investing (in general and the stock market specifically) and gambling when you make that confusion/analogy.

            Not beating the market but having positive returns is only “losing” when infinite exponential growth is the goal. Beating the market but having negative returns is not “winning”.