Original Comic: https://thejenkinscomic.wordpress.com/
I’ve found Lemmy’s Linux community to be extremely helpful I hope it stays this way
It’s one of the things that I like the most about lemmy over reddit. The reddit linux community was toxic, insular and gatekeepy, even as a moderately experienced linux user I had difficulty getting help.
“Learn how to Google noob!”
Fuck sakes, I just spent several hours deep diving forums and Web search results looking for an answer to my question, and the only thing I could find that was exactly my problem was concluded by OP editing their post to say “Ah, never mind, figured it out.” And not including the solution…
It should be legal to hunt that person down and clamp a lobster to their nipples.
Oh there’s a special place in hell, where Satan from the movie Little Nicky is, waiting for these people…with lobsters and a pineapple.
probably because lemmy’s pretty small compared to places like reddit and because everyone sees the same content with the same sorting, places like reddit make a few “help” requests visible and make them feel unimportant
I asked about servers once and they told me don’t host a server under any circumstance.
“If you don’t know to do X, don’t even bother learning.”
“Don’t learn anything, just give up.” Great, thanks, guys.
We should do our part in reporting unhelpful users. Especially those that recommend Arch or more advanced distros to beginners.
I installed Linux on my gfs (now wife) old laptop years ago when the begginger distrod was way less user friendly. When I asked on a forum for help it was just the sound of crickets. When she made her first post starting with “my boyfriend installed Linux and I don’t understand how to…” They fucking fell out trees to answer her questions
lol bunch of thirsty incels.
Is your wife single?
Let us know if she still needs help
No. But she loved the the reply :)
X is deprecated, you should have moved into systemd-Y
You should change to Arch, I don’t use X but Arch is better.
Oh fuck you… take your upvote and know that you have hurt my soul and I love you for it.
X is deprecated, you should move to Wayland.
Unhelpful Linux User Archetypes:
The Configurator: All problems are configuration problems. The fact that a user has a problem means they configured their machine incorrectly. All help requests are an opportunity to lecture others about configuration files.
The lumberjack: Insists on logs no matter how simple or basic the question. “How do I get the working directory in the terminal?” -Sorry, I can’t help you unless you post your log. “What does the -r flag do?” -You need to post a log for me to answer that question. “Is there a way to make this service start at boot?” -We have no way of knowing unless you post your log. When a user posts their log, the lumberjack’s work is done. No need to reply to the thread any further.
The Anacdata Troubleshooter: Failed to develop a theory of mind during childhood. Thinks their machine is representative of all machines. If they don’t have an issue, the user is lying about the issue.
The Jargon Master: Uses as much jargon as possible in forum posts. If a user doesn’t know each and every term, that’s on them. If you did not commit to mastering every aspect of a piece of software before asking for help, were you even trying to solve the problem?
The Hobby Horse Jockey: All problems are caused by whatever thing the contributor does not like. Graphics driver issue? Snaps. Computer won’t post? Obviously, Snaps. Machine getting too hot? Snaps. Command ‘flatpack’ not found? Oh you better believe snaps did that.
The Pedantfile: Gets mad because everyone asks their questions the wrong way. Writes a message letting the user know they asked their question wrong. Message usually appears within a minute or two of someone providing a solution to the user.
The Repeatophobic: If a question vaguely reminds them of a previously posted question, they become enraged and insist the new thread be locked.
It’s infuriating how many times I’ve seen a locked thread with no answer linking to a similar yet different problem that doesn’t solve my issue.
These types exist for most any technical problem. The last one is the whiny one who also slams someone with a solution they don’t approve of. Even if the solution satisfies the person asking for help or perhaps because it satisfies them.
See most of these on the Arch forums
Bonus points if the lumberjack doesn’t specify what logs they want or how to get them.
So you’re saying that there are some asshats out there? Those are everywhere.
The open source community, and Linux community in specific mostly is a very positive and helpful bunch. I’ve been on IRC and fora for years and yes, yes, sometimes somebody says something negative, gee wiz.
So far the most negative types out there seem to be in this post all complaining about how negative everyone is while in reality it’s not that bad
You should use Wayland, not x
Don’t forget Pulse audio!
Pipewire’s the new hotness
Buy a different GPU
I’ll let myself out
He said X, not Wayland.
Ah yes, a perfectly normal thing to do after I’ve previously spent thousands on my NVIDIA GPU and am just getting into Linux. Love this comment when it comes up.
This is complicated. Firstly outside of Wayland Nvidia works pretty great and has worked great for me 21 years on the other hand the amount spent is kinda irrelevant using different hardware is often actually the correct advice. Often though the logical move is use Windows on your effectively Windows only laptop and if you want to run Linux buy something compatible next go round.
Some hardware just isn’t supported and given hostile to indifferent oems it will always be so
I agree, and it’s been a fine experience with nvidia on Xorg. “Buy new hardware” is not what someone getting into Linux should hear though if we want to increase the number of Linux users.
This has been a trope since Linux existed.
"Linux doesn’t work with my hardware*
“Well, just spend hundreds or thousands on new hardware so you can run this free OS!”
Dude I had a bunch of people tell me to install mint OS on an older intel MacBook Pro and no one told me that out the box your Wi-Fi doesn’t work, the keyboard doesn’t light up, the touch bar doesn’t work, etc. lol
I don’t even like the Touch Bar but I need F keys so…
Then when I asked what to do they all said “well that’s your fault for using a Mac.” Most unhelpful shit ever. One guy said “well use an external keyboard and Ethernet chord then. I’m on a tower what’s the issue here?”
It’s a laptop. Sometimes I move around with it. I travel a fair bit too.
Idk honestly it’s not just a Linux thing. Any technical community you’ll often find a lot of people who hand wave away very reasonable issues instead of either suggesting a solution or, I don’t know, just not saying anything? Like they have to chime in and call you a whiner.
The trick is to say “Linux sucks! It can’t even X!” Where X is what your issue is preventing. You’ll get the answer, to prove you wrong.
Or find a thread where someone else asked the same question, and give the wrong answer/solution.
I think we’re past this era honestly and moved into the “ask Chatgpt”
There should be an AI trained just on linux questions.
Problem is the training data might include “Do you know what google is, noob?”
I love that this comic is already a meme.
BTW which distro is best for running Adobe??? I really need Photoshop on my laptop. EDIT: /s, and also I guess the joke doesn’t actually work here lol
https://github.com/hypnotiger/photoshop-on-linux or If you have low end device then use CS6 version of Adobe Software with Wine. Ofcourse, You can *arrrr them.
I don’t know, but I would try a distro that is also recommended for gaming, because you will likely need an up to date version of WINE or something similar.
So maybe endeavour or Pop!_OS?
From my personal (very noobish) experience, it might be necessary to run a virtual machine with Windows. However, this experience is from before the Steam Deck and Proton, which improved the whole software biotope by a lot.
I already run Endeavour and don’t actually need any proprietary Adobe software, but thanks :)
I was wondering if you were joking :D
but apparently I guessed wrong.
VMWare workstation is now free for Linux!!!
Just run windows 10 LTSB!
VMWare workstation is now free for Linux!!!
Oh? That’s pretty cool.
Just run windows 10 LTSB!
Ew, no. I will never do that. I was completely joking about Adobe and expecting links to the GIMP repo lol.
Windows 11
I saw it on c/comics and realised it could be a meme.
It’s kind of stereotype, i’ve always find the help i needed on Arch, but yeah there’s bad guys everywhere
The quickest way to get the right answer in any community, in my experience, is to provide the wrong answer. People will come out of the woodwork to correct you.
Yup. This is known as Murphys Law
No, that’s the one where “everything that can go wrong, will go wrong”
You’re thinking of Godwin’s law
No, that’s the one with nazis.
You’re thinking of Moore’s Law
No. That’s the one where:
7 cups green cabbage , finely shredded (Note 1) ▢1 medium carrot , shredded (1 1/2 cups) DRESSING ▢1/2 cup Hellman’s mayonnaise (or other whole egg mayo) ▢1/2 cup sour cream or yoghurt, full fat is best ▢1 1/2 tbsp apple cider vinegar (or sub with white wine vinegar) ▢2 tsp Dijon mustard ▢2 tbsp white sugar ▢3/4 tsp celery salt ▢1/4 tso black pepper
You’re thinking of Cole’s Law.
I like arch because it reminds me the most of windows
You must’ve gotten some bad weed friend.
There is a single command on windows to install any software with using just words (like yay?)
choco install widgetThere are administration tools available for system deployment but they’re generally closed source and limited to the software selection available.
Unsure about command line, but PC Decrapifier is useful for removing preloaded software.
Ninite is useful to install software in batch.
Ninite can also install Malwarebytes, which is quite useful.
Between Windows Defender and Malwarebytes I generally don’t recommend anything else. And then Malwarebytes, which is extremely effective for free, is the only security suite worth paying for if you want to “set it and forget it”.
On the Microsoft side of things, a great deal of software can be deployed via command line.
It’s possible to build an offline installer for Office and Office 365 for example via the office deployment tool.
Additionally, it looks like if you pay for Ninite Pro, it supports command line.
https://ninite.com/help/features/switches.html
Hmm TIL.
Ohh, i wanted to write just TWO words 😂😅 that two went missing
Does this match your description?
😁that really looks very similar to yay
There’s winget but it has almost nothing on it and no matter how new the iso it typically doesn’t work out of the box and you need to update it through Microsoft store. Tried using it instead of downloading stuff off the Internet. Only the most popular apps and not even all of them are there which is pretty annoying. It’s also so much slower that most package managers and tries the Microsoft store first unless you specify.
It’s an improvement but it’s not fixing any of the real issues with modern windows.
The original
appgetwas better, but Microsoft basically killed it.That sounds like an interesting read. Before I switched to Linux I thought of making an app that watches driver websites and either notifies or pulls updates for you to install.
Short of some sort of user maintained database of download links and support page links/product number (for database lookup), I don’t think I could have scaled it at any real capacity. I wonder if GitHub frowns on a project using it as a big database of yaml or json files.
There was a program called Secunia that did exactly this. It was amazing. Sadly they were acquired and ended the free offering.
An important context that’s missing from the blog post is Keivan Beigi is one of the core contributor of Sonarr, a popular app in the *arr scene. Microsoft probably realized it late after offering him a job, got cold feet and ghost him.
😂what a fun fact
?
I try to help an be supportive to newcomers. There’s always someone who thinks shaming someone for using non free software or something like an Nvidia GPU will change their mind. There’s also people who disagree with you and respond to every comment but don’t offer a real solution in return. I love the people who say it works on mine without explaining what they did to make it work on their system.
I’m thinking of using my second SSD to install Linux, is Arch actually good or just a meme?
I’m out.
It’s a really good, slightly bare bones initially but completely modular/customizable. If it’s your first foray into Linux something like Debian, Mint or PopOS would be a slightly more comfortable starting point
Depends on your use case. Arch is a DIY distro but is well maintained and has the latest packages on their repo. Its user centric, unlike many distributions that are user friendly. You could read the archwiki to find out if its for you
I used Ubuntu for about a decade and I still use a Linux system via SSH to run code, so I’d like the challenge. I just wanted to know if it’s worth the work or just a meme, thanks!
Arch is great, but not very beginner friendly. It might be better to start with somethin debian-based like linux mint, and install arch once you get used to using the commandline and know where to find answers to your questions etc.
i like it but i think beginners should start out with" just works" distros
For beginners, don’t go with Arch. Debian or Linux Mint for normal stuff, Bazzite if you’re going to game. Once you want to get to know the internals of a linux distribution, you can go for an unstable distro like Arch, Gentoo, or way lower with Linux From Scratch (LFS).
P.S Arch is a meme because it was hard to use and required the terminal, but it lost that spot to NixOS.
It is genuinely amazing, there’s a reason us Arch users never shut up about it. The setup/configuration in the beginning will seem daunting but once you have everything the way you want it is a smooth and enjoyable experience.
I’ve spent over a decade in Ubuntu and using ssh terminals to run code, but I’m looking for big boy Linux. I think I’ll try it out.
If that’s the case it should be a much easier transition. I also came from Ubuntu originally.
You will notice the difference right away. Everything is always up to date so you’re not waiting half a year for updates and there’s no big upgrade transitions between major versions. And pacman is a lot faster than apt in general.
Plus with the AUR you’ll never touch another PPA again. Almost anything you could possibly want is in there, even some of the most obscure/specific things.
I do recommend doing everything from scratch if you have the time, but if not EndeavourOS is literally just preconfigured Arch (and I do mean literally, it uses the same repos) so that’s also a solid option.
That sounds amazing actually. And a good challenge, I’ll give it a go when I get my computer back next week.
Rtfm noob
I’m using Ubuntu derivatives since many years. I’ve looked at Arch in virtual machines and was very much lost. Even with Manjaro I didn’t get along. I’m still testing EndeavourOS, which looks promising.
So to me, Arch is too much hands on for my lazy ass. However, if you like to nerd yourself into it, it’s awesome (I think).
If you’re on Windows currently and it supports Hyper-V then I recommend using it to try a few distros out. I liked using Kubuntu 23 recently.
Use something easier to get started with like Ubuntu or Debian. Arch isn’t that great. I’ve installed it a few times as a VM but to me it brings nothing new to the mix. I kinda view Arch fanatics like apple fan bois or beer snobs. Kinda fun to laugh at for being so pretentious. After a while though you wish they would quit hot boxing their own hubris.
It brings nothing new to the mix until you want something that’s up to date or something that’s not in the main repos and now you have to track down a PPA or manually install a deb file and keep it updated yourself instead of being able to use the package manager.
You can start with Endeavor OS KDE… it’s an arch system with Endeavor OS package managment added on top. So the Arch experience is the same… without the pain of installation.
Plus it has some cool wallpapers.
One way or another I’m moving to Linux for my next PC. but damn I finally think I understand enough to decide Debian would be a good ‘it just works’ distro and then Linux users out the woodwork telling me its actually a pain in the ass and to use XYZ (all disagreeing) distros instead. I’m like 90% sure its going to be Debian, Ubuntu or Mint but beyond that its more uncertain than the inside of a black hole.
Very good choice going with Debian. It is simple, clean, can be as minimal or as “bloated” as you wish, and once you’ve worked out the kinks it will happily run for years without maintenance (except updates of course).
There’s a steep learning curve because as a user you’re expected to configure stuff yourself (although defaults are most of the time very sensible), but if you’re willing and able to truly learn Linux and the terminal and you’re familiar with your hardware, it’s one of the best platforms out there.
Been using debian for more than a decade and “it just works” has become truer every year. It’s a good distro, if you have no principle objections against systemd (which I do, but am too lazy to do anything about).
The one thing I am not happy about: Audio drivers on a Desktop computer
- works out of the box, but then messes up when selecting input devices from:
- line in
- headphones in
- USB camera microphone
- Audio in “sinks” - I believe those are channels allowing for active noise cancelling / preventing Audio feedback loops I had a whole lot of trouble with pulseaudio selecting the correct source when trying to use my mic in the browser.
On a Laptop, I’ve never experienced such issues, as all devices are integrated (apart from the headphones jack, I guess).
Just when I got familiar enough with pulseaudio, they replaced it with “pipewire”, which fucked up output devices:
- works on boot
- when I plug in headphones: it messes up the Audio output to HDMI and I have to manually re-select (on desktop environment) the headphones
- when I then touch the volume control (GUI), the output goes silent again and I have to select the “Port” headphones for the “Built-in Audio Analog Stereo” under “Output Devices”
drives me crazy since the last update - but it’s only an issue when using headphones, so for now I am living with it.
I use an external usb dac/amp to handle all my audio switching and has been working flawlessly on debian. Could that be an option for you?
That seems like an ugly workaround - using external hardware to pretend that internally there’s only 1 device. Not my preferred method, to be honest.
I mainly use the external hardware as a workaround for unwanted noise from the pc. It bothers me to no end to hear the mouse cursor scream into my headphone/speakers.
Ouch - I have heard that symptom before - luckily not an issue on my hardware…
Better leave out Ubuntu if you don’t want to be bothered with Snap.
Debian is a bit more “naked” per default, as a beginner maybe go with Mint.
Split the difference and run LMDE.
Debian does just work and is a good choice. I think people typically have good experiences on Mint also. Ubuntu is becoming like the Windows of Linux distros, I used to use it on everything but I won’t be installing it on another machine because of Snaps.
If you plan on using Linux to do gaming you might want a more up-to-date distro tho.
Best advise I can give after 20+ years of distro hopping is to be ready to try a few different ones to see which one might resonate the best with you. Because not all of them will feel right. But you will find one that fits you best. It might be Debian or Ubuntu or Fedora or Suse or Mint or even Arch. (I don’t run Arch BTW)
In the long run, it don’t matter which distro you use - they are all Linux under their petticoats anyway. Just choose the one that works for you and makes YOU happy. And if you decide to change your distro of choice at any point for something different, that’s all good too.
I know exactly what you mean. I’d also prefer Debian, Mint or Fedora. Each has its weaknesses, but you got to start somewhere. Go for it, then decide for yourself. It’s not that hard to switch again.
Just learn to search for the proper Terminal/ Konsole command to copy and paste what you want just like the rest of us.
That’s how you Linux… Right? My dudes? Right?
No better way to learn how something works than to be forced to repair it from a broken state 😎
Pretty much. It’s what makes all those Linux Experts so Expert! Besides, ain’t no one got time to memorize and understand what all that stuff does…
If I want to run games in Steam on NVidia GPU, with KDE and Wayland, what distribution would you recommend?
Check out one of the Fedora spins if you want to go Wayland.
I have Fedora KDE Plasma 40 on a laptop with a nVidia chipset, (I need to have it defaulted to Nouveau and the base Intel chipset). Maybe by the middle of next month they MIGHT have something cobbled together to get a decently working experience for the majority of users. Otherwise, don’t be surprised if your screen flickers, has missing parts of your display, or just a black and blank screen.
Wayland and nVidia - two piles of stupid that are meant for each other.
Garuda. Gaming/perf focus, with lots of built-in niceties (like btrfs snapshots on upgrade, proton GE, etc)
I just use Debian, KDE is an option during install and I use it. However, my brain lacks wrinkles so I’m sure it could be “better” on a more purpose built gaming distro. Over the decades of on and off Linux use, I always end up on Debian because it feels like solid ground to me
Technically not a distro, but give Bazzite a try. It’s probably the most hands-off gaming experience on Linux. Valve employees also make contributions to it.
At this point with Wayland, none of them…
Windows XP
they ported kde wayland to xp? wow!
Yeah, I keep seeing this and it’s never been my experience in 20+ years of desktop Linux.
Yeah, every now and then there is the asshole and troll. Go to a supermarket and you’ll find them too, go to your job and you’ll find those too. I don’t call all supermarkets asshole conglomerates, it’s simply the world, there are asshats in the world.
I’ve talked directly to main developers of many systems like LVM, PHP, and so on who spent time to help me fix my issues. Who ever got to talk directly to an Apple dev or Microsoft dev?
It’s not just Linux, it’s like that with all open source. Yes, there are negative players everywhere, but mostly it has been a very welcoming and helpful group
I’ll second this. Maybe they’re coming from Reddit? I’ve seen some pretty awful screenshots from there. And I’ll also second the helpfulness of the FOSS devs - I’ve reached out to the OpenSSH maillist to try to better understand the functionality of cert auth and they were super helpful.
This is the year of the linux desktop
