More video and eyewitness info on Al Jazeera so far

Also reported on Common Dreams and Middle East Eye.

I haven’t found any reports of any independent investigations yet, hopefully they are underway

      • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        AJ confirms these people were found, and Palestine blames Israel.

        It doesn’t confirm who did it or who they were, and saying investigation is needed.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Hamas is terrible as well, and this is why an investigation is necessary, but Occam’s Razor suggests it is likely the IDF. The IDF needs to show total transparency in a global investigation.

    • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      The first paragraph of the Al Jazeera article shows the biggest difference in the quality of reporting

      • mass grave found

      • calling for investigations

      • Palestine authorities blame Israel.

      This is the big concern I have about the original article - instantly called it executions of civilians, Israel did it. AL stated the facts, and you said it yourself - breaking news and investigation takes time, so why is it ok to scream genocide and Israeli did it? I can guarantee you Democracynow won’t release a massive recant of its statenents and apologize if it was wrong - it just put out the fastest article it could that stired up the most anger.

      I got downvoted to shit because because I believe in waiting for the evidence and can see there is a clear bias in the article.

        • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          First article discusses a killing of 11 civilians, and other isolated events. Each individual one absolutely needs to be investigated and those responsible held to account but its not genocide.

          Second discusses the effects on the elderly population and how nearly 1% of those over 60 have been killed - most killed by rubble. Again, not genocide. It sucks but civilians do die in war - those that were killed in cold blood do need justice however.

          Third one discusses the changes in human rights over the last year (actually a really good read), how war crimes have been committed by both sides. Mentions numerous crimes against civilians, including events of executions. Like the first - those should be held to account but its not genocide… or if it is its a pretty crap attempt.

          Is there precident that Israel could have done this - yes.

          Is there also precident that Hamas could have done this - yes.

          Thanks for the links by the way - pretty accurate and unbiased reporting. They are discussing that there are human rights violations happening from both side in this conflict, and hopefully international pressures will bring those responsible to account - but its not genocide. Happy to change mind as new evidence comes to account.

      • Cinner@lemmy.worldB
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        9 months ago

        It’s insane how infested Lemmy is with anti-Western shills stirring the pot against the West in any way they can. My fiancee is Jewish but I’m not religious so we have debates/arguments about the war, but it’s clear here that any comment not “Israel is literally Satan” is downvoted to hell.

        Don’t get me wrong it was bad on Reddit but Lemmy is on another level.

        That’s a problem with decentralization that needs to be solved because at the moment the only tools to deal with any of the tens or hundreds of Lemmy instances plagued by propaganda is to defederate them (on the Admin side) or block each individual user/server/sub (on the User side).

        At least with centralized services you can detect and (shadow)ban obvious bot activity quite easily. As far as I know of Lemmy infrastructure, your IP/User-Agent/other identifying metadata only goes as far as the server you’re registered to.

        Running a popular Lemmy server is probably a nice way to collect some juicy 0days from governments though, if you have the skillset.

        • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 months ago

          What does yours and your fiance’s religious differences have to do with it? Many Jewish people think the Israeli state is violent and illegitimate. There maybe some shills here, but is it possible that there are just more users aware of the history than you are used to? A lot of users are here because they don’t buy into the Western propaganda that inundates Reddit and most English media, not that we are anti-west shills. There are many perspectives in the world outside of the US and western countries, millions of people are in agreement in their desire for Palestinian freedom and the end of Israeli state genocide.

        • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I was talking with a poster a few days ago - apparently the mods of .world are heavily anti Israeli and approve and block based on their own viewpoints and standing. Mass bot account to vote are permitted, complaints against them are ignored. This one isn’t actually too bad - im downvoted to shit but the comments back have been honest and clear discussion with facts which is a nice change.

          I don’t know if I’d call it anti western - I have no doubt there are Russian and Chinese bot factories here - but there is absolutely a push to certain agendas. Can’t comment on federation as I don’t look at that side of lemmy.

          I said this one a few days ago - if we want this to be a place of facts and truth we need to be pushing back against poor reporting. The downvotes will come, but the more comments pushing evidence and calling out inaccuracies the better.

      • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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        9 months ago

        Amy Goodman, who runs democracy now considers herself anti-imperialist.

        If a terrorist organization is losing a war they started, she’s the first in line to repost a half-true interpretation of Al Jazeera reporting (which already is only ever half true at best due to the fact that it is rightwing propaganda marketed to college leftists).