Summary
Ukrainian officials were advised not to sign a U.S. proposal on accessing rare earth minerals, as it prioritized U.S. interests and lacked security guarantees for Ukraine, according to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
The document, presented by U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bassent during a Kyiv visit, was intended as compensation for U.S. aid.
Speaking at the Munich Security Conference, Zelenskyy stressed any agreement must ensure both financial benefits and security for Ukraine amid ongoing Russian aggression, and Ukraine is preparing a counter proposal.
You only offer such a one sided bad faith deal if you are truly an idiot or if the whole point is to make a show of them refusing the deal. Israel does this to Palestinians all the time for makreting purposes, as another example. The problem with trump is that we dont know if he is truly that stupid or if he has a separate malign intent in doing this. My money is on malign intent.
The agreement was performative. It was always meant to “prove” that Ukraine was not interested in peace, and a reason that Trump is the only one who can “negotiate” on Ukraines behalf.
So, basically give up being raped by the Russians to being exploited by the Americans. What a good deal, great deal, maybe the best deal in the history of deals!
I’ve known people like this, who just take whatever they want as if they’re entitled to it, but never a country. Weird, gives me the same feeling as if it was a person doing it… like, get the hell outta here and go earn your own stuff.
They let you do it when you’re famous dontchaknow? Or so I’ve heard.
It’s a much more complicated issue than that. Think of how much we have given to Ukraine to support them. Some semblance of ‘repayment’ is fair. But taking 50% of their mineral wealth is absolutely ridiculous. That is, practically, their security and future.
What good does it do to exacerbate their post war economic crisis? Nothing.
Why are we giving them security now, if we’re going to take 50% of their security afterwards? It’s so fucking backward.
Repayment is not at all what this is about. We are talking about a man who was impeached over demanding Zelenskyy provide political dirt on his opponent in exchange for not disrupting aid shipments.
You said it yourself: given
You’re implying that the military aid was “given”, as in: without expectation of repayment?
Yeah, I thought the US saw this as a way to hurt Russia. Isn’t that what we were supposed to be getting out of the deal? Not fucking mineral wealth.
Though, I still don’t think it’s so preposterous for the US to ask for some sort of repayment, for lack of a better word. Just not what the Trump administration is trying to do right now. What they’re asking for is far too consequential.
Even with morals and literal colonialism aside, the US is not in any position to make demands as Europe is more than interested and willing to tide Ukraine over, carry it through this all.
If the US wants to have money then stop donating and start selling instead, see if there’s buyers. Simple as that. But then also don’t expect to get a cut of the reparations.
That’s an interesting point. They’re trying to become a part of the EU, right? You brought to my head the idea that, if they secured a deal with the EU, they could push for joining union and have those minerals contracted to be bought by the EU in the future, helping themselves and the rest of Europe.
Does Europe have the military resources to make this viable though? Have all the EU nations combined supplied as much as the US has?
It’s such a fucking mess, dude. Ugh.
EU states don’t have much surplus hardware standing around so we couldn’t send Ukraine as much as the US did, but we do have armies that can roflstomp Russia. And from all I see everyone pretty much agrees that with the US betraying everything that means gloves off, the question is more whose boots on the ground, not that there are going to be boots on the ground. Somewhat awkwardly everyone is looking at Germany and we’re having elections this Sunday.
Either way with or without boots on the ground we do produce our own military hardware, and could expand production very quickly the issue so far has been committent to buy lots of stuff so that companies are comfortable investing in the production lines.
As far as mineral resources are concerned: Meh. I mean it’s nice to have but joining the EU is not a matter of bribing the EU. Your economy must be strong and developed enough to be able to cope with competitive pressures in the single market, some stuff about balanced state budgets, that’s all we don’t mind if you’re poor, we can fix that.
I just wanna say thanks for the dialog. I really appreciate your helping me understand and expanding on my thoughts.
Hope you’re well, G.
I understand it’s not as simple as a personal one-on-one relationship… I was just remarking that it gives me the same feeling as if it was. Much of what’s happening right now feels very personal to me, even though I know it isn’t… when I find myself worrying about my loved ones and their futures, for example, I take it very personally what Trump’s doing.
It is a person doing it. Just happens to be running the country.
Unfortunately, a lot of people in that country support him, so he’s not alone.
Trump and the rest of the Putin-bootlickers can go fuck themselves.
May Europe do what the US is apparently no longer willing to, and provide Ukraine the necessary support to defend itself.
And the people complaining that people who want to support Ukraine against an outside invasion are warmongers can go fuck themselves with a cactus.
so edgy
Right, defending allies is sooo edgy.
They are going to have to. But the western rules based order is as sickly there as it is everywhere else. Inconvenient laws are just ignored these days by European governments too, so it appears to be just a matter of time. (I hope I’m wrong, for what thats worth)
Spoiler alert: it won’t
LOL They already lost with all the ‘help’. Remember their great offensive where they got 1 potato field? It’s over. But sure, let’s kidnapp some teens and elderly to die for nothing
Yes, it’s vital for Europe to unite against aggression from russia. That, including invasion of Ukraine, is expanding with attacks on communication cables at sea.
Maybe, symmetrically, Europe should support China’s ambition on Taiwan, so to make people at the “white” House understand common sense.Europe should support China’s ambition on Taiwan
lol. wow. I’m speechless. But I think you were snarking, so uh.
i now realize what i wrote was nonsensical since i really don’t want Europe to support China’s ambition on Taiwan, yet, i would like if Europe could do “tit for tat” on USA’s stupid take on Ukraine that is exposing Europe to russia’s military madness.
“tit for tat +” is demonstrably the best strategy to prevent escalation of conflicts and push for peace.
“Supporting Russia’s ally to get back at Russia” doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Right, of course. But if it is only in the discourse … to make pressure … still doesn’t make sense ?
No, it doesn’t make any sense. Chinas claim to Taiwan is as illegitamate as Russia’s claim is to Ukraine.
Yes, of course both are illegitamate … and there’s no way Trump’s negotiators believe their stance on Ukraine is legitimate either. My point is to make those negotiators admit their position is invalid by symmetry.
You had me with the first sentence. Then you walloped me with that second big line of stupid.
It’s not difficult to support an enemy of the USA these days thankfully, just lend your support to Canada.
They deserve it, and we need to stand with them against US Imperialist aggression.
You know two wrongs don’t make a plus
Even if the USA promised total war against Russia until Ukraine is completely free plus 50 years of protection, who would believe a single letter in an agreement with Murica today??
That’s not very fair, the US also promised Ukraine protection if they’d removed their nukes in the 90s…
FYI
When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory. When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine and Russia. The result was the Trilateral Statement, signed in January 1994, under which Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear warheads to Russia for elimination. In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the United States, Russia and Britain; compensation for the economic value of the highly-enriched uranium in the warheads (which could be blended down and converted into fuel for nuclear reactors); and assistance from the United States in dismantling the missiles, missile silos, bombers and nuclear infrastructure on its territory.
Well they had been receiving aid against Russia until now…
After Russia broke the agreement and attacked Ukraine, the US should have stepped in immediately and this entire was would have been prevented. I mean back in 2014 when the Russians took Crimea.
They had to run in the middle of the night from their last base in Afghanistan. They are a joke
Contracts like those always have extensive breach clauses for ass coverage for both sides.
And who is going to enforce a breach?
trump himself re-negotiated nafta and is now renegging on his own deal placing tariffs on Canada and Mexico
My first thought is that payments are staggered and if they don’t arrive the contract ends. Bog standard clause. Wild man trump isn’t going to risk American lives over enriching his mates. Americans wouldn’t tolerate it either.
Having only local workers as part of the contract would also remove any boots on the ground to remove.
Second one that occurred is WTO.
Wild man trump isn’t going to risk American lives over enriching his mates. Americans wouldn’t tolerate it either.
Surely you joke?
No I don’t. What mother is going to happily send their child off to war over a contract?
No sure about the happily part but pretty much every modern conflict has been over stealing resources or political posturing
That last part I fully agree with but very obviously enriching already very rich people at the cost of your child’s life (versus for example keeping oil prices low for the average Joe hidden behind a war of being the good guy aka gulf war 1).
I just don’t see it happening. I can’t see the average US soldier and especially their parents rallying around “they broke our contract!”.
I mean… How many bags of onions are we talking here?
One. Absolute best offer.
Ok, ok. One bag potatoes too.
Ladas only for early sign ups.
So, let me know if I understand what the US is proposing. In exchange for getting Russia to agree to only annex a large chunk of the country (for now), Ukraine must cede a huge percentage of its natural resources to the US as payment. Is that about it?
Yes. Once the
USTrump has a signed agreement for the minerals he signs a treaty for Ukraine giving Russia whatever it wants but let’s theUSTrump keep the mineral rights.𝘗𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦™
additionally this allows TRUMP To absolve russia of its crimes well.
He’s doing a lot of absolving other countries of their crimes lately.
Trump is only capable of quid pro quos when it comes to… Well… Everything he does, I guess. He has no friends, and no allies… Only people he takes from, and in return they get something that was never his to begin with.
Trump sounds so weak ngl.
If Trump and Musk had just waited until some of these deals were inked before trying to plunder the US Treasury, they’d be in a much better position. If they’re willing to treat their own people like an ATM, how are any of our allies supposed to take them at their word, or trust that the US is negotiating in good faith? And the notion that foreign aid should be paid for like a utility bill is, I think, a pretty foreign notion to most.
It’s wild to me that the super-wealthy are still so insatiably greedy that they’re tripping over their own feet here.
That’s because you’re thinking of them as people like us instead of sociopaths.
Extreme wealth is a disease.
most of us if we had 10 million dollars would just stop working and go out adventuring across the world. billionaires, however, are set onto some sort of arcade game where the number next to their name when they die is the entire point. it’s not fun for them. but they have to see the number go up because it’s the only source of dopamine in their life
A recent study shows a link between workaholics and erosion of moral values.
workaholics? hrm.
I know a lot of very rich people (I am very not rich). Most of them dont work very hard at all-- they arent workaholics. A small handfull of them worked to some degree when were younger, but mostly they were lucky in the dotcom boom. When you hit a big break like selling your company, your pot of money just starts making more of itself and you can start strutting around like you earned every cent. They uniformly become awful people as well. Fucking each others wives, making truly awful children, enjoying throwing their weight around while pretending to be humble. Its entirely predictable and an obvious pattern. Human nature I think.
That was another study. In that, they let people play Monopoly but gave one player an obvious advantage. Double money when passing start, that kind of thing. Of course they won, but when asked why they won they would invariable boast how much better they were than the rest and not mention their advantage. The same thing happens with getting lucky in dot com boom or born wealthy and they see it as just being better.
thats why the billionaires figured out if your worn down and tired you arnt willing to engage in class war.
I mean, what are they supposed to offer? Ukraine needs to pay its debt.
Give Ukraine back some nukes under their own control.
they never had nukes, they were soviet nukes
In between the end of the Soviet Union and them signing the Budapest Memorandum and giving the nukes from the ex-Soviet Union that were in their territory to Russia, there was definitelly a period during which the sovereign nation of Ukraine had nukes under their control.
OK, but regardless of who supplies them, if Ukraine had a few under their own control, for better or worse it would give them a deterrent they never should have been swindled into letting go of. Sucks, but it seems any nation that doesn’t have nukes is at an extreme disadvantage in defending its sovereignty.
In fact, I think it would be worth it to put a few nukes in every NATO nation bordering Russia or its smaller, unprotected ex-satellites. Putin will grandstand about it but is he really going to start WWIII on it? If he was willing to do so, he already would have when other nations began sending conventional military aid to Ukraine. His bluff needs to be called and he needs to be forced to back down.
Your (luckily hypothetical) suggestion is wrong and extremely dangerous in many ways.
WW3 nuclear dangerous.
To name just one reason, Russia did not tolerate Ukraine in NATO since that would mean nukes too close to Moscow and a well known red line.
That will never fly.
All this was stated by them and western expert fully understood and knew this would lead to war.
I’ll leave it at that.I know how dangerous it sounds. But every time Russia moves the line,the rest of the world is supposed to fall back? Moving arms into NATO countries sends a message, but it isn’t starting a war. Putin’s the one who actually invaded another country. Merely reinforcing defences is NOT starting the war. He started it and doesn’t want to die in a nuclear war any more than we do. So he’d complain bitterly but wouldn’t DARE make a move against it. Why hasn’t he already just nuked Ukraine (even ‘just a few’ tactical nukes?) if he believed he could ever survive doing so?
I’m guessing you are young sice you make these wild statements. You have little understanding, restraint or tactical knowledge and are guided by anger that makes you even more prone to fatal and catastrophical mistakes. It is not Russia that moved the line but NATO. All the way from Germany to literally their border. Without even getting into thr geopolitical let me explain this AGAIN from a practical and military standpoint: Having nukes in a country like ukraine would already be a lossed cause for Russia. THey are literally too close to defend from. So even any attempt at putting them there is a life threathening situation and a guaranteed immediate WW3 no questions asked response. Nobody with a minimum of knowledge would be insane enough to call their bluff, not even Trump. you should learn that. The ones in Romania are just as far as is allowed. If you would’ve been in charge of either side for the last 10 years, we would all be dead.
Wait, so you’re blaming NATO for the current situation? Oh boy. I’m done here.
Yeah leave him, he’s just spewing kremlin propaganda.
as soon as you see a whole essay , i would just ignore it.
Standard imperial contract.
Sounds like the “Fart of the Deal”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npDqU47qZ7s
And zelenski just stood there with a silly grin on his face.
The minerals are for all the money and weapon US had already gave Ukraine. The security guarantees costs extra.
New USA colonialism:
“Let us help you fight for your freedom!”
3 years later…
“Ekhmm… remember the aid we sent? It wasn’t to help you fight freedom after all. It was so now we can feel entitled to your resources.”
Check mate.
Gave
If english is not your first language you might want to check out the definition of that word.
So go fuck out of all of security bases in Europe. Let’s see how much longer you will survive and thrive without allies and generally hated by everyone.
You think the rest of the world should simply succumb to your scummy practices?
